Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

Log in
  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Red and Blue-Ray

B

Brandon Freeman

Active member
Joined
May 16, 2007
Messages
41
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Boise, ID
Website
www.hall-e-woode.com
So, I'm thinking about archiving issues, and I know there's a ton of different opinions, but I'm just wanting to know, if I have a 50GB Blue-Ray disc, how much RAW 4K footage would fit on that 50GB? As in, hours and minutes (most likely minutes)...
 
The REDDRIVE is 320 gb and will hold about 3 hrs of footage (not exact) we haven't gotten final confirmation on data rates yet. So your 50 GB Disk will hold about half an hour of raw footage. OUCH
 
blu-ray

blu-ray

Brandon Freeman said:
So, I'm thinking about archiving issues, and I know there's a ton of different opinions, but I'm just wanting to know, if I have a 50GB Blue-Ray disc, how much RAW 4K footage would fit on that 50GB? As in, hours and minutes (most likely minutes)...
Click to expand...

figure about 25 minutes of 4k at 24fps per 50gb blu-ray disc. but the real issue is the cost of each dual layer disc and transfer speed. right now i'm seeing just under $1/gig and transfer speeds of just under 10mb/sec. that's just under 90 minutes to transfer 25 minutes of actual footage. not great but both will get better. hopefully soon.
 
Okay. So, if I decided to shoot 2k instead, does the footage get recorded as 2k to the hard drive or is it still RAW 4k, and downconverted when transfered?

And if it does record in 2k, am I getting a smaller file size, or the same size, but a picture less compressed?

Sorry for all these questions -- I've studied the chart for a while now, but can't seem to get these questions answered.
 
wigby said:
figure about 25 minutes of 4k at 24fps per 50gb blu-ray disc. but the real issue is the cost of each dual layer disc and transfer speed. right now i'm seeing just under $1/gig and transfer speeds of just under 10mb/sec. that's just under 90 minutes to transfer 25 minutes of actual footage. not great but both will get better. hopefully soon.
Click to expand...

Wow. Looks like I'm still waiting to make a decision for what I'm shooting my next film with.
 
Sorry for the triple post, but...

Isn't redcode a bit more compressed than RAW? Would it not be advisable to shoot 4k 24fps w/ REDCODE?

Confused noob, sorry.

ADDED SO AS NOT TO QUADRUPLE POST :) :

So, it appears that there are three quality formats. I don't know how I missed this. Am I correct, then, in assuming that REDCODE RAW (which is different from RAW, correct?) will be at about the same bit-rate as XDCAM HQ (35mbps)? (I understand that it's a different encoding style entirely, so I'm not worried about encoding 4k with only 30 mbps.) Then, would a 50 GB blue-ray hold about the same amount of REDCODE RAW as XDCAM HQ data?

I hope I'm not bugging anyone with all these questions...I'm just learnin'. Thanks for your time in advance.
 
Brandon; I'll try to answer...

Here goes. Feel free to correct me, anyone.

Redcode is a way of compressing RAW files. RAW is not a compression scheme, but describes the unprocessed data coming off the sensor (as opposed to YUV or RGB)

It is not the same bitrate as HDCAM HD. Bitrates are quoted using upper and lower case letters, mainly to confuse noobs, i think.

b= bit
B= byte or 8 bits.

XDCAM HD =35 Mb/sec
Redcode = approximately 30 MB/sec or almost 8 times as much data.
If my math is correct, that works out to 240 Mb/sec.

So a 50 GB Blu-Ray wouldn't hold as much.

Incidentally, XDCAM HD 35 uses a high-rate compression scheme similar to HDV. Although it looks pretty good, RedCode will be much better, just going by the numbers. And about 5x as many pixels.
 
Yeah, I just figured out the b and the B on wikipedia. Doh.

Wow. So I am really going to need to figure out the whole storage space thing if I do go with Red.



So, I guess that makes it about 1.5 GB per minute. Hm.
 
If it makes you feel any better, it's about the same data rate as uncompressed SD video.

And check out the other threads. There's lots of ideas on storage.
 
And the thing I have to keep remembering too, is this is a camera that would easily sell for 3x its price, yet is only $17.5k -- so after all the lenses and stuff, you spend around $50k or maybe a bit more for an entire set-up that in any other circumstance would be $500k or more.

Ho...ly...crap. Red is awesome.
 
Yea, I heard a rumor that they could have priced it at $5000, but it would have caused too many nervous breakdowns, so they up the price for the good of mankind.

Brandon Freeman said:
And the thing I have to keep remembering too, is this is a camera that would easily sell for 3x its price, yet is only $17.5k -- so after all the lenses and stuff, you spend around $50k or maybe a bit more for an entire set-up that in any other circumstance would be $500k or more.

Ho...ly...crap. Red is awesome.
Click to expand...
 
There is no sensible archiving strategy at the moment that I can see apart from multiple hard drives. Tapes and opticals just don't cut it. Something the whole world is having to come to terms with.
 
You can get a 2 TB drive from LaCie for $769 US. I'd guess you'd want about 10 TB to store a feature (100 hours or a 50:1 shooting ratio, to be generous), so double it for safety, and your storage costs are $7690. Shelf space is about the size of a medium beer cooler.

HDCam tape is about $4000 at the cheapest, DCVProHD is about $4900. Double that if you want a backup. HDV is much cheaper, but you don't want to shoot on HDV, do you? And film? About a quarter million. Without processing.

Now if you really want to save, you can buy raw drives for under .25 / GB, which would make your feature storage costs about $5K, with backup.

To save even more money, you could double-backup just the media in the final cut of the show (using the media manager), and single-backup the raw footage, and reuse the drives on the next show. That'd save you almost half. Three years later, it'd be a good idea to rotate your media, copying it to new drives, then rewriting it back. Good work for an intern, copying 20 TB of files.

But it all seems fairly doable to me.
 
Have you been looking in my plan file??? ;) Because that is pretty much my back-up plan for now.

vanguy said:
You can get a 2 TB drive from LaCie for $769 US. I'd guess you'd want about 10 TB to store a feature (100 hours or a 50:1 shooting ratio, to be generous), so double it for safety, and your storage costs are $7690. Shelf space is about the size of a medium beer cooler.
Click to expand...
 
Someday there'll be this 73 cent plastic sheet you feed into your printer and it records a hundred terabytes on an 8 1/2 x 11 " sheet, and it does it in 49 seconds, and it lasts for eternity, surviving supernovae and three-year-old drool.

I long for that day.
 
And when that comes out I will back-up the HDs to it :)

vanguy said:
Someday there'll be this 73 cent plastic sheet you feed into your printer and it records a hundred terabytes on an 8 1/2 x 11 " sheet, and it does it in 49 seconds, and it lasts for eternity, surviving supernovae and three-year-old drool.

I long for that day.
Click to expand...
 
vinney57 said:
There is no sensible archiving strategy at the moment that I can see apart from multiple hard drives. Tapes ... just don't cut it. Something the whole world is having to come to terms with.
Click to expand...

How do you figure? The IT world has been managing GB's & TB's of data on a daily basis through various systems like tape backups. Complete with automatic tape libraries & robots.

This stuff exists and is reliable. Of course you can backup to either an offline or online hard drive system, but that doesn't have nearly the same track record.

It might be cheaper to store it on drives, but I don't see why tapes "just don't cut it".

How did you think the IT world do their backups?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top