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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RED air transport, gamma radiation, and effect on sensor?

tj williams said:
Well I'm willing to talk to myself here to keep this at the top of the pile...
Hey RED TEAM!!!!

1. I've found out Sony has serious limits on the number of dead pixels they can mask. Are we going to be better off?
2. Will there be a guarantee on the camera that will include this kind of failure for some period of time?
3. If our sensor fails, from where-ever the radiation comes from, will we have to pay more than a dog house or more than a people house to get a new one?
Click to expand...

I think REDCINE will have the ability to map and mask dead pixels....
Since RED is just starting up it will be interesting to see how the policy
of repair-replacement pans out.
 
Hi Red Guy
Not just interesting but a deal breaker. If the current value of my Sony Camera and the repair it needs are the same then I have a boat anchor.

If the RED camera needs a new sensor and it costs 1/2 the new selling price of the camera then it is a big issue. Even at this early time The RED team is buying sensors. They are doing whatever mods they do. They should reasonably have some idea of what they are paying what markup they need and a rough price spread.

The number of pixels masked is also critical since provenly to me anyway pixels can die.... Hey cosmic rays... sunspots... The ghost of Elvis... Bottom line is that I have had the experience of having a camera come back needing a repair which costs as much as the camera itself is worth. That for me at least has been a serious wakeup call.
 
I know of an easy pixel loss solution, I have an old mitchell body you can buy it runs high speed but is not sound friendly. Other then that it looks like dead pixels are a chance you take with sensor cameras. I think the lead bag/blanket some have mentioned may be a fairly cheap easy option if they work.
 
Hi Finner

I appreciate your offer but my own film camera is somewhat newer and lighter. Not sound friendly? Too much fan noise I guess??

This thread has become a sort of UFO discussion. The Sony Tech we talked to at their National broadcast repair facility USA seemed to believe, although he for obvious employment reasons can not say "officially" that the Sony cameras suffer "sensitivity" to this problem. Which may be caused by cosmic rays, luggage inspection, sunspots or whatever. He also said that we could not reasonably cover the camera with enough lead to fix the problem. Now it is unknown whether the RED sensor will be sensitive to this problem or not. What is also unknown is what RED will do about the problem of dead pixels which affect all chip type cameras. First of all it is unknown if the Mysterium even has the capacity to mask dead pixels. Given that it does then There are two aspects of this problem:

1. How many pixels can be masked. This is currently known by red since they are working with an existing sensor which has specifications. A part of this question is also what will the operator have to do to mask pixels or will it be automatic.

2. How will RED treat the replacement of a sensor which fails. Will it cost as much as the camera is worth as Sony has done? I don't think so. Will it cost the price of a still camera sensor probably not? Can we replace it locally or must we lose the use of the camera for a period of time (Sony had our camera last time for 4 weeks) the turnaround time they will shot for is also unknown.

Quote Finner: "it looks like dead pixels are a chance you take with sensor cameras."
You must never have experienced this type of failure. Let me tell you some new shit that has come to light! On our last shoot with the Sony HD camera pixels died in the middle of a remote location. My partner had to have them fixed in post to keep the client. The cost was $4000 US to repair them, in an online HD post room. Now Dude maybe 4K is "just a chance you take" I however do not live in LasVegas!
 
The Mitchell is old and not a sound camera, it actually sounds like a small tractor, especially when its cold. I was just kidding about it.

I guess the main point I am trying to make is that I am cam# 993 and you are 1150, we have some time to see how the camera reacts in the field for a while before ours are ready for delivery. Thus there is a lot less of a gamble then being number 9 lets say. Every one who has reserved a camera has gambled a bit on the red camera but I feel it is a well thought out intelligent gamble from what I have learned and heard from industry friends that have high positions in reputable companys.

The biggest beauty of this camera is its upgradeable ability. I feel red will not want to take the risk of a poor lasting sensor and as problems do begin to surface with the sensor over time I feel I will be ready for the next generation sensor and just buy one to upgrade then.

I understand you got burnt by sony and that does not for a second surprise me. I think you have probably seen the lack of sony fans here. The red team knows it is already under the microscope for other companys to find problems to tear them down so they are going to do everything they can not to let customers down.

I totally feel like the gamble we all have taken will pay off big. I think give the red team the chance to bring out the camera and have it tested a little bit before they get grilled a whole bunch on things.
 
Interesting article about making CMOS and other ICs to be rad-hard (radiation hardened)
http://www.aero.org/publications/crosslink/summer2003/06.html

One type of electronic component often found aboard a satellite is the complementary metal-oxide semiconductor (CMOS) integrated circuit. CMOS devices use the simultaneous flow of both electron and hole currents through transistors and logic gates. (A "hole" is a quantum mechanical concept that is generally modeled as a "missing" electron in the semiconductor lattice.) The transistors that carry these negative and positive currents need to be isolated from each other; this is where space radiation can interfere.

Misterium have to have reasonable price to be replaced or to be rad-hard,
(for space explorations:-)

Andrew
 
IMGentertainment said:
Sounds like BS to me. Dalsa will deliver there camera by truck (beacuse its to big to do any other way) so it will aviod this. So don't buy a RED camera just beacuse its small dosen't mean you will be able to use it everyware. You'll get dead pixels..

Sounds like spin to me.
Click to expand...

so very very funny...
 
Jarred, I guess people with limited budgets are wary, what will be the price to replace CMOS.
Dead pixels will happen this way or the other and one out of 'N' Misteriums have to be replaced sooner or latter. So if CMOS replacement will be very costly, I think I should open insurance for CMOS replacement policy for $50/month:-)
 
Andrew, I don't know why the concern - we all carry our DSLR cameras, with CMOS sensors, by air, through security xrays, in the plane, many, many times a year without issue.

We do understand the issue and the questions being asked in this thread. I'm sure they'll be answered to your satisfaction when we have the right data to do so.

Graeme
 
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