Red aerials - help please!!!

[Tom Lowe]

"I generally use a Squirrel AS350 which is a 3-bladed machine. The company I fly with are really great and are happy to track the blades for me before a shoot, giving me the best platform to work from.
The mount is my own design and build and have been using it for 5 years now. I'll post some images."


http://www.dssmicro.com/theory/dsrothst.htm

Rotor tracking is a complicated and time consuming process, and involves special equipment. It is not something the helicopter company simply does before each shoot. I was told that it takes at least a day to do it right...it ends up not being done a lot as it takes the aircraft out of service for that time.

I believe that the constant "bumping" that you see in the footage is due to this. (it has a definite frequency that from my experience is about what you would get from the blades being too out of "track"). See article above.

Also, the "yaw" in your footage looks to me like the pilot was crabbing the ship a bit to open up the side to your camera. That is hard to keep constant and it involves a lot of left petal (assuming you are shooting from the right side). This is from my own experience actually flying a helicopter, along with shooting out of them for about 25 years.

Larry

:attention9ha:

 

[Dave Blackham]

Joe,

PM'ed you,

Dave

 

[Antony M]

I've been using a Canon 24mm and the Tokina 11-16mm - both of which are very compact lenses.

Joe,

One thing which occurred to me...

I have seen mention in other threads that using Canon and Nikon mounts are generally not as secure as PL-mounts. Maybe this is a source of vibration/movement problems?

Antony

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Joe,

I'm glad to of helped. (I think ...)

That is a good point others have mentioned about the mount- all the aerial stuff I have done has been with a PL mount. The Nikon and Canon mounts are not as robust as the PL mount. I'm not familiar with the helicopter you are flying, but I was in both larger and small ones and both worked fine. The smaller ones definitely had more shake to them. Maybe the one you are in vibrates as just the right frequency to really cause you problems.

I'm very interested to see your rig. I'm impressed that you built it yourself.

 

[Anson Fogel]

Gibby has the definitive poop

Gibby has the definitive poop

First, we've had great luck shooting red1, using Canon lenses on a Birger mount, out of a well flown chopper. We shot handheld (sort of) on a the small tyler mount - minigyro I believe it the brand name. Basically handheld on a spring loaded post with gyros. The mini gyro is on the edge of its max realistic weight even with a stripped red, but we still got great footage after careful testing of shutter/frame combos, using a redram and cards.

Prior posters note that wide lens was the problem is dead opposite of my experience - wider lens, less visible shake - although at the very wide end you end up with problems as the distortion at the edges shows while the camera is moving - if handheld this shows in forward and back movement in unexpected ways - so avoid focal lengths wider than say 35mm unless nose mounted or hard side mounted etc, IMHO.

Your footage shows mostly problems beyond the camera to my eye, as well as possibly some opportunity for more optimal rate/shutter combinations.

We tested rates in a studio shaking the hell out of the cam, based on Steve Gibby's spectacular red aerial posts - search - and even trying other combos, Steve's were still the best. The magic shutter combos seem to be, for us, again using minigyro, essentially handheld, 17-40 and 24-70mm glass:

4k quad HD - 24FPS project, 30FPS varispeed, 1/96th shutter
3K - 24FPS project, 48FPS varispeed, 1/120th (we used this for 90% of the footage and keep the slowdown in mind when panning, piloting, etc, with great results)
2K 24FPS project, 120 FPS varispeed, 1/196th
If your project framerate varies from 24/23.98, then multiply the actual varispeed rate accordingly - its the relationship that is key. But you probably knew all that.

Again, search for Gibby's posts on red aerial, he is a wealth of knowledge - these are my experiences, after gulping and using all his guidelines....

 

[Michael Brennan]

Looks like plain old camera shake.
1/96 shutter highlights the bounce, as it does with any camera.


Do you plan to do a lot with your home made rig or is a one off?


Mike Brennan

 

[Joe Shemesh]

Hi guys,
Thanks so much for your continued input on this thread!!!

Might take me a few days to get my head back into this as at the moment, having to deal with police forensics and insurance co after having my fire-proof/bomb-proof store ransacked during a break-in yesterday.

Luckily for me, the f#@*&%# good for nothing bastards weren't after camera equipment but rather cash and jewelry - neither of which I have any of at the moment.

Back soon

best
joe

 

[Michael Brennan]

Sorry to hear that joe, I hope the insurance does what it is supposed to.


Mike Brennan

 

[Mark Lovelock]

Hey Joe, I did an aerial shoot a couple of weeks back using a nose mount and 17mm Nikon. Because as previously mentioned the nikon mount isn't very 'robust' I gaffa taped the lens tight to the rods, so there was no play. Also taped up the focus and zoom rings. (to me it sort of looks like the lens is moving around in the mount, giving you that crazy wobble?) Lastly are you using a cheeseplate to mount? Dovetail could be problematic.

 

[Steve Sherrick]

If using Nikon lenses might want to give the Optitek ProLock mount a try. There is no play with the lenses when using that mount. Feels as solid as PL to me.

Great information in here. This will come in handy at some point for sure. Thanks!