RED #8 testing team & some details

[Milan Nikolic]

Thanks Gibby!

 

[number6]

How independent is this test if the testers are mainly moderators of this site: Evin Grant, Häakon, Brook Willard, Jeff Kilgroe?
Why not include Ivan Kragoff?




I'd rather have a test done by Jarred Land. I know he works for RED and is on the pay roll, but at least he is up front about it.

Eugene! You son-of-a-gun you... You went against the grain and stirred the pot counter-clockwise, and because of that all these new clarified aromas (statements of defense of how the tests would be conducted and by whom) have upped the status of the brew.

 

[planet e]

i can't wait. this session will give me some good material to chew on until christmas.

why question a gift horse from our site's premier educator? he could easily have taken his camera and put it to work immediately on his next umpteen projects, but instead he's putting it to work to release info, data, and hopefully, some footage to us. nice. a big thank you to gibby and his team.

i'm hoping that the team can get its hands on the 18-50mm lens or the 300mm lens, so that we can get some feedback on their quality, as well the camera itself. those are sizeable investments as well, and i'd like to get some expert opinions + comparisons to some of their cine and DSLR counterparts.

 

[Steve Gibby]

First let me thank the members here for their many kind words and voicing of support for the testing. Much appreciated…

I am an independent producer/director/cinematographer. When I produce motion media projects, I always seek to hire above the line and below the line crew that is experienced and talented. Beyond that, the qualities I seek in the project crew are good attitudes, an ability and desire to be a member of a team, and people I like and respect. Beyond the necessary talents/experience, the cohesion of a team can make of break a project. Every production calls for all crew to dance well together – or the project and its results suffer.

In producing the L.A. RED testing I’ve approached the testing team building the same as I would if this was a feature or television program I was producing – as described above. I sought diversity of skills, talent, good attitudes, and the ability to work as a team in each of the people I asked to join the team.

Evin will be directing the testing, and I have great confidence in his ability to do well at that. Speaking for myself, when I direct a production, I rely on the producers to set me up with a talented, good-natured crew as I’ve described above. If they haven’t – I won’t accept the job directing the production for them. In this case, I’m producing the testing, so I’ve done my best to set Evin up with a good team. When I direct, and I will only direct when the team is as described above, I let the team know that I have solid confidence in their ability to do their part as professionals, and I oversee the effort by macro-managing the effort, never micro-managing unless I absolutely have to in order to ensure the quality of the end results. I believe Evin’s style of directing is similar to mine, thus I expect the testing to flow quite well and achieve some accurate results.

To those few on this thread who felt moved to question the neutrality of the testing, please re-read my thread starting post, where I purposely mentioned that the team would have to be unbiased, objective, and straightforward in their approach. I wouldn’t have it any other way, and I’m sure each of them feels exactly the same on that – and I see David, Ken, Evin, and others have stressed their feelings on that. Clear, accurate testing will benefit the members of the team, this board, and RED. That level and quality of feedback, on the heels of the good feedback form the beta testing on features, can only benefit us all.

I’m pleased to announce that after starting this thread yesterday, I have been approached by several other RED One camera reserverists with serial numbers between mine (#8) and 50, who have offered to bring their cameras to the testing session. I think it would be a serious upgrade to the testing sessions to have a few more shipping RED One cameras there. That way, when there are strengths or weaknesses found in the testing, we can easily deduce whether it is a glitch or nuance of a single camera, or if there are strengths and weaknesses common to all of the cameras. I fully expect RED to be good on quality control, and to especially have all the serial number 6-50 cameras closely QC’d before shipping them. By our team in L.A. testing multiple cameras from that first batch, I think we can provide valuable feedback to all of the reservists of that first batch, and again, valuable feedback to RED on how they’ve done in production and QC. That will benefit all later serial number reservists.

Indie Rentals of Hollywood has generously offered to donate lenses and other support to the testing – much appreciated.

We can obviously only test what is enabled on the cameras. Later firmware upgrades will call for another testing session.

I want to again thank the team members for agreeing to donate their valuable time to this testing. It will give each of them a head start on their hands-on knowledge of shipping RED One cameras. As Jeff has accurately described, my strategy in asking several RED User moderators to be a part of the team is to help equip them to moderate this board as the cameras start to ship – something that benefits us all. The more they know, the more they can effectively moderate the board. These mods are all independent pros and they donate their time to help us all – something I deeply appreciate. Guys like David Mullen ASC also donate a lot of their valuable time to instruct this board, and now are stepping up to donate more valuable time to help test the cameras – also much appreciated.

 

[McDiver]

Thank you, Gibby.

Thank you, Gibby.

Gibby, you and your assembled team are very kind to embark on a test like this, and share your insights. It'll take a lot of personal time, and whatever observations you and your team share will be highly valued by those still waiting in the wings, as it were.
Have you included the possibility of sharing some snippets from your tests, for those of us interested in the available color and contrast from Red footage? I know it could take up a lot of server space, but I'm sure I'd be one of many happy to volunteer that for you, if you need it.
Thanks for considering our suggestions. It's very generous of you, and hopefully you will be repaid many times in the future.

Glen

 

[Finner]

...I purposely mentioned that the team would have to be unbiased, objective, and straightforward in their approach. I wouldn’t have it any other way, and I’m sure each of them feels exactly the same on that – and I see David, Ken, Evin, and others have stressed their feelings on that. Clear, accurate testing will benefit the members of the team, this board, and RED. That level and quality of feedback, on the heels of the good feedback form the beta testing on features, can only benefit us all.

This statement by Steve is something you can all trust.

I am lucky enough to be a member of the testing crew and feel it is easily seen on my past posts that I call things like I see them and don't pull any punches with anyone (Even if that means getting hammered by a bunch of fanboys for my "principal" metaphor.). I look forward to seeing the things the camera does great and try and find the cameras limitations with the rest of the team. No tool can do everything and and learning limitations (or better yet what needs to be done differently in different situations to get the best results with this camera) is one of the key elements to achieving the best work possible with any tool.

It will also be interesting to see what this camera is really really great at. Hopefully if possible a few side by side tests with red vs a 35mm film camera would be great. I have some 5205 kodak vision 2 250asa kicking around which may be a good match as I believe the red was rated best at around the 300asa mark.

But no one should fear as I see a true depiction of the camera comming out from these tests.

Also most or all of the team are soon to be owners so why on earth would any of us want to hide any issues we may discover when testing the camera. It would be very foolish of us to sweep any problems under the rug then to address them and hopefully have them rectified before our cameras ship. I am very excited about my precious 993 and without a doubt want it to be the best camera that it can be.

Daren

 

[beatniq]

I assure you that I have never been in the employ of Red. I will be donating my time and effort for this endevor just as I did at NAB. I have a track record of camera testing dating back to the original DVX100 that should suffice to eliminate any worry about bias. I was asked by Panasonic after the HVX200 test that Jarred, Barry Green and myself did If I would like to be on the back of the broshure, It seemed like good exposure to me but I was never paid for that little trick either. I have no issue with aligning myslef with those products and companies that produce products I use and believe in but I am not a schill. I do not just vomit up the Coolaid whenever someone asks a hard question. We will push #8 to it's limits and beyond, and we will determine as best is possible in the two days alloted what it is and isn't capable of. We all expect the best, but are by no means willing to comprimise our own integrity for some psudo-allegiance to Red as religion the way some seem to be precieveing us.
E.

Nice website(s)... i see you're a fan of Amon

why does it not surprise me that the cool people would be here?

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

But no one should fear as I see a true depiction of the camera comming out from these tests.

Also most or all of the team are soon to be owners so why on earth would any of us want to hide any issues we may discover when testing the camera.
Daren

Exactly.....

Much of the team, including myself, are RED cam owners and you'd be hell bent to find me not complaining if I felt something about the RED wasn't up to par.

As far as I see it, (Though I highly doubt this course of action will ever see the light of day) if for some reason I am not pleased with RED after testing concludes, I wouldn't be against returning my order and continuing the rental process or waiting for the next big thing.

Ofcourse, I'd present my negative findings first and wait for an answer from RED as to whether there will be a solution to the problem or not.

After all, it's my money and I sure as hell am not going to waste it.

I for one am not a wealthy guy. This camera will be costing me an arm, liver, kidney, and a leg so believe me when I say that you will receive an honest and straightforward review from me as well as from all the other team members.

 

[Michael Brennan]

I think Gibby putting the camera though its paces is likely to unveil/reveal a set of pros and cons of RED months ahead of what will be discoved on set of the features.

I've been disillusioned and disappointed with many HD tests, certianly the ones paid for by Kodak and Arri that go out of their way to prove what HD can't do!


Generic limitations of performance tend to get targeted and then blown out of proportion and compared to film.

I suggest two groups could test. Those that want to explore what RED can't do and those keen to explore what it can do!


Mike Brennan

 

[Matthew Greene]

Thank's guys for your responses (even Narcosis guy).

I was in no way suggesting any of you lacked the slightest bit of integrity and I apologize if it read that way. I am aware of who many of you are. The purpose of the question was to understand the handling of any information that could be considered negative, because to me, this is the most useful info that comes from testing. Only by knowing the weak points can we make decisions on how to overcome them by either preparation, technique or plain avoidance.

I am also a reservation holder and an early believer in the product. However, I don't believe any tool is perfect and I just want to know why it's not in order to pull off a better product.

 

[Michael Schrengohst]

And I am sure Evin will be testing with his Nikons and giving
us a blow by blow on how to change from Nikon to PL mount.
Or if it is even possible to do without a trained camera tech.

 

[J. Bernard Vallon]

its supposedly a simple allen-wrench process...but that doesnt mean youd want to do it to the field.

 

[planet e]

gibby or evin: do you know if the birger technology will be ready in time for the testing, and is it possible to include it in the lens set-ups?

i would be willing to volunteer my legendary Canon 200mm f/1.8 to the process (also my 100mm macro, which i would love to have tested against the macro feature of the 18-50mm, if it is available). i also have a 70-200mm f/2.8. and others. do you need production stills? i could offer up my lenses to the testing and take some photos. i don't know if there is a cleaner lens than the 200mm f/1.8. for production stills.

anything to be a fly on that wall!

 

[REDHKSC]

AGreed Dave, and would RED will issue the test certificate with each RED One signed by the Test Engineers and DPs or + Signature of Mr. J.Jannard etc.

I have got many Gibson and Fenders or Martin Guitars with those quality statements. If this is any quality problems they should pay the responsibility though. They selling their BRAND not Product.

Cheers,

STEWART
HKG / CHINA

Anyone who works for RED (like Jarred) has already been testing the camera in various stages for the past year... so I'm not sure what the point would be in asking them to conducts more tests for users who are receiving their own cameras, as opposed to the new owners now testing the cameras for themselves.

Usually when a new camera comes out, it's up to the users to put them through tests, a few designed to discover the camera's "breaking points" -- how it handles extremes in exposure, for example, like in a super low-light situation.

Companies who build these cameras generally don't release the results of such worst-case scenario tests themselves since it does not show their product at its best and therefore may confuse the public. However, the typical user will want to know if they can go out at night and rate the camera at 2000 ASA or higher and get decent results. They'll want to know when it burns out to white or goes to black, etc.

All I'm saying is that the type of tests that users do tend to be different than the type that companies shoot and release to the public.

Besides, I'm sure Jarred must be very busy over at RED...

Surely, Eugene, you aren't suggesting that someone like Gibby not test his camera when he gets ahold of it?

 

[Erik Widding]

gibby or evin: do you know if the birger technology will be ready in time for the testing, and is it possible to include it in the lens set-ups?

I spoke to Gibby some time ago regarding this. We will be providing an EF lens mount for use during testing. Based on Jim's latest schedule, this will be a production mount, and a pre-production (possibly production) rail mount knob and/or wireless hand controller.

I will be releasing product details (including features and pricing) on Monday 2 July. We will start accepting reservations at that time.

 

[planet e]

that's awesome news, thank you for the update, erik. my hope is that the testing team can not only provide feedback on how this will work but also an image or two of it in action (production stills, anyone??), so that we can see for ourselves how it might translate for field work. this gets better and better!

 

[MikeCurtis]

late getting to this party, had an off-site yesterday...

Gibby - sounds great, looking forward to it! I know you'll run through all this very thouroughly and well.

-mike

 

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

To everyone working on this test: Thank you very much :weight_lift:

Will the Canon Birger mount be ready by then? Maybe we could FINALLY put the Nikon vs Canon "debate" to bed, eh Evin.. :whistling:

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Another cup please

Another cup please

Nikon v Canon, Mac v Windows, Arabs v Israelis, Red states v Blue states, Video v Film - ahhhh, which will be decided first... None in my frikkin' lifetime.

In any case I will be bringing #19 to the LA REDTest and will keep an eye out for the kool-aid concession ;-)

 

[Paul Hazlett]

thanks Gibby!!

here is an idea. Could you do some less than ideal testing...low or no
lighting running, low mode with handle, harsh backlights and darker interiors
with windows.

Maybe you already have this on your list, but I thought worth mentioning.