Recording audio in extremes conditions... with only 2 mini-jack !!

[Jack Colquitt]

Hi, everybody !

Within next months, I will follow humanitarian organisation in few "hot spot", and I decided to use a Scarlet for that work.
As you understand, for speed and security concern, I need to keep the camera low profile as I can.
That mean only Scarlet, with zoom lens, follow focus, v-lock battery, LCD, and monopod.
My biggest concern is about the audio side... I will meet lot of people, and sometimes, I'll need to make interviews on the fly.
So I thought I need an cardioid micro for stereo ambiance, and a super-cardiod micro in case of interview.
Firstly I wanted to go on the easy way and take one Videomic Pro (super-cardio) and a Videomic Pro Stereo (cardio),
because they are light and can be directly plug into the Scarlet's mini-jack.
I know, it's not the best sound device, even more if it's directly on top of camera, but... no choice,
I'm a one-man-band, and I must stay discreet... so no boompole, no light, no crew, and no magic arm, with a giant blimp with fur !!

But, I just discover there's only one mono channel by mini-jack in the Scarlet.
So I can't use both those 2 mic, because 1 "mono-mono" channel + 2 "mono-stereo" channel = 3 channels !
Does someone invent a magic stereo mic, with only.... 1 channel ??! ; )

On reduser, I found this excellent thread http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?66761-Recording-Stereo-using-Mono-Shotgun-Microphones
and while I'm not sure to understand everything, I'm afraid this solution with huge micros, blimp, fiel mixer will be too massive and heavy for me...
And in other way, I can't use an external recorder (like Tascam DR100) because they only got 2 channel, and mostly because I can't trigger it to the camera...
by experience, I know there is too many chance, when everything blows around you, to forget to push the record button of the sound recorder !
And on my last film, I got 250 hour to sync between footage and isolate sound (without assistant on "set" to take notes),
and I became absolutely crazy, even with DualEyes software... so now, I want my sound directly ON the "tape".

So do you think there is solutions, for having both stereo ambiance, and close-up when needed,
with only 2 mini-jack, and if possible without spent $4000 in one huge I/O module for only 2 XLR !

And if not, what's my best options, light and discreet, even if the sound is not perfect ?

Thanks !!

 

[Marc Wielage]

The best option in my opinion would be to hire a decent sound mixer and record all the sound separately. This will allow the camera operator to concentrate on getting great pictures, and let the mixer concentrate on getting great sound (and/or handling the microphones). I'm not convinced one person can do both well.

At the worst, the sound person can also act as an assistant, and you're going to need somebody to carry cases, spare batteries, handle CF cards, and so on. A one-man-band can sometimes work, but I wouldn't do it in a "hot spot" or any place with potential for violence or robbery.

 

[Jack Colquitt]

Yes, you're absolutely right.
But I will work with small humanitarian crew, and logistically, one person more mean more vehicles, more food, more security, and so on...
and the war refugee people are often afraid to talk to a person with a camera, so imagine with two... and a boom pole ! ; )
So... I'll have to be 2x more efficient, but stay "alone".

 

[Mike Paul]

Ideally, what you're looking for is a M/S microphone. Without getting too technical, an M/S or "Mid/Side" microphone is a type of stereo mic that captures and outputs a Mono signal on one channel, and a Figure-8 signal on the other. In Post, these two signals can be "decoded" to allow the creation of a stereo image. This gives the advantage of being both a Mono and Stereo mic at the same time. You could use something like the Sony ECM-680S mounted on the camera with the mic outputs going to the two mini-jack inputs of the camera. One channel (usually the Left one) would always be a Mono signal, but when mixed in Post with the other channel, you get a stereo image. Most of these mics will require 48V Phantom power, which I'm not sure the Scarlet provides yet, so that might be a determining factor.

Here's my advice, though: Don't worry about stereo. Take the money you were willing to spend on the two Rode mics, and buy one good quality small shotgun mic. If you don't have 48V power, then look at something like the Sennheiser K6/ME66. Buy some wind protection for it, and I'm not talking about a foam windscreen. Get a Rycote Softie or similar, and a decent camera shockmount and you're in business.

Unless your documentary focuses on musical performances and ambient shots, you'll find that a good shotgun mic will provide ample coverage for what you're aiming your lens at.

 

[Marc Wielage]

I bow to Mr. Paul, who is a gentleman and a scholar. I agree, stereo is not necessary for a run-n-gun documentary like this. Getting good clean interview sound (or background sound) is the real goal here.

 

[Brian Ferguson]

The situation dictates the audio recording, not the camera. I agree with Marc - if possible hire a audio guy. I don't care if it is an Epic or Scarlet or some other camera audio is pretty much the same.

 

[Allan Black]

The sound is 70% of what you see, in a doco it's 80 or even 90% .. make no mistake, with a new camera like Scarlet on location, you'll be flat out getting your pictures.

So hire a competant sound guy with all his gear, and one who's actually worked in 'hot' spots .. for all of the above reasons.

Cheers.

 

[Jack Colquitt]

@ Mike Paul / Marc Wielage

Thanks for your advice ! But, I already made few doco with shotgun, and I felt pity not to have record also the "atmosphere"...
I used a supercardioid micro (NTG3) and while the sound was really good (for a simple camera operator like me !) in normal "intimate" situation,
it's still missing something when I was in crowd situation, with protesters, and scream.... it sound weird ! lake of "atmosphere"... don't find other word !
That's why I want a stereo + shotgun... and I found it !!

I followed Mike advice, and after many research, I found a good, light and rugged MS microphone, the MSH10 from Pearl.
(Does someone have an advice about it ?)
Now, the question is... can I connect it directly on the Scarlet without preamp ?
I think I will make another thread only for this question, for future REDUSER seekers.

@ the others... ; )

I fully understand your point of view... really !! For me no good pictures without good sound !!
Think in the other way is a totaly nonsense...... and, of course, I'll never pretend be myself a good audio guy... far from it !!
And each time I can have an audio guy at my side, it's a pleasure.

Buuuut....... sometimes, there's no other choices !
And people who already make this kind of doco, in extreme condiion knows what I'm talking about.
When you are in the middle of nowhere, surround by lots of weapons, carried by surexcited people,
packed like fishs on the platform of a pickup, there is no place for a second person... because there is already no place for you !!
Nobody, included the humanitarian crew you have to follow, wants you onboard !!
One people more, means more cars, more food, more danger...

And you say I can't take care about pictures and audio at the same time.... absolutely right !!
As right, as I can't take care about my audio guy... you don't have enough time to be worry about your team-mate...

And sorry again, but I don't know much of people who want to work in those kind of situation,
and which I know so well that I'm sure he will read inside me without a word, and knows where I will run before I'm thinking it myself...
and of course...... stay alive !!! ; )

I understand you.
I hope you understand me.

 

[Mike Paul]

I love the Pearl M/S mics. They are well-built, good sounding microphones, and are not horribly expensive.

Keep in mind that while the "Mid" portion of the Pearl is a Hypercardioid capsule, it will not have quite the same "reach" as a shotgun, like the NTG3 you used before.
In interview situations where the subject will be within a meter or so of the camera and the environment is relatively quiet, it should serve you well but outside or in high noise
situations, you will get a little more off-axis ambient noise than you would have with a shotgun.

Have you thought about putting a shotgun on the camera and then just pulling a little stereo recorder like a Zoom or Tascam out of your bag when you need to get wide ambience? You might have a little
difficulty accurately syncing this when editing, but it's another option.

Hopefully, you'll have time to test any of this before you go. The noise of the camera's fan might be an issue on quiet interiors, especially if the mic is mounted on the camera.

 

[Jack Colquitt]

I thought the MSH10 more shotgun in the middle...
and the fan will surely be a huge problem for the side !
Did you ever try to use it directly on Scarlet / Epic without preamp ?
And do you know where I can find samples of this micro ?

Maybe, I have to take a more hypercardoid MS micro, but I was confident about the rugged aspect of the MSH10.
Of course, the better is to take directly a MS stereo pair of Seinnheiser 30+50 or 60,
or a shotgun on camera, and small external recorder for ambiant.

The real choice is between be focused on "action", and put the technical aspect after the immediacy of the moment,
or be a real one-man-band, behind the crowd, and spend my times to push record buttons, and turn knob of all device !
It's sure that the Scarlet is not a real gun-n-run camera..... better take an EX1 !!
But thank you all for your help, because I can see all options, even if I have to take the worse ! ; )