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Reality Check! Miami Music Video Scene!

Carlos Prio

Carlos Prio

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Reality Check for me brothers!!! Miami has turned into a Hip Hop, Reggaeton, Latin Music Video Mecca with all kind of Directors workin it out down here. Commercials have been on the decline and films are non existent since this genius state has cut all tax benefits for the film industry but all and all I have been doing alright.

But, for the past 90 days I have witnessed a substantial increase of the Canon 5d/7d DSLRs into Miami's Music Video Sets. Time & time again Red Rental quotes have gone cold... I show up on sets and I am told that we are shooting on Canons!!!! Then I speak to a couple of other DPs in the area and several have told me the same thing! We are shooting on 7ds! One colleague stated that he preferred the 7d's low light capabilities and chooses 7D over the Red. What???? what about banding and compression??? "No matter Bro, cost/quality ratio" he states!!! So, I understand that it's "Obama Time" and ultra low budgets is the norm in Alternative, Reggaeton & Hip Hop videos but on the main stream (lil Wayne) & big budgets??? What about commercials??? Anybody in LA & NYC feeling some of this???

Now I have owned a 5D since it's release and I must admit that I have used it very successfully in video mode!!! I have used it when I needed a POV/Body/funk mount camera or the client just worked me down to the point where I would not use the Red. As you all know, the pictures straight out of the box are just amazing!!! But I just can't stomach it in the real production world!!! and I surely can't stomach it in post. But right now my rentals are challenged and the 7D is kicking my ass!!!

I will keep you posted if the trend continues!!!
 
wait for the Scarlet's/Epic's...I'd wave good bye to this trend then, after holding that body proto and being an owner of a 7D...this trend can't continue and RED are definitely on the right path. Jees if they shaved off even just a bit more of the epic body it'd be amazing, or made a few carbon accessories increasing the lightness.

This trend can't possibly live on for too much longer...good luck with it though! I'm going to stay out of rentals for a while to come...
 
i have a feeling as the web takes over more and more people are not going to care about super high resolution

It's become the "Good enough" country (world?)


look at mp3's they sound like crap but nobody even notices anymore because they are so dominant

its rough terrain will be interesting to see what happens next

im obviously not a genius business man but Scarlet should become the focus and it should be cheap and ready to go ...my honest opinion
 
ive been seeing this for a while now...
but honestly.. the only people who care about quality is US..
the film makers.. the cinematographers or tech geeks..

in real life.. people could give a shit. they dont care about quality but quantity.

its the hard fact.

Its all about what can we get on the WEB ASAP! and for CHEAP.

my biggest fear is paying another 30 grand for a camera system that loses out too a 1700.00 camera..

feature films and network tv will always use quality.. and this is where RED takes the cake. We have already seen the decline in FILM for RED projects...
but now im really seeing the RED- CANON decline and its happening more and more..
it wont be long till feature films and tv will soon jump onto the dslr bandwagon.. especially when the next generation of dslr's come out.

were talkin under 5k for a camera system that will be working the big and small screens..
profits for us = bye bye
profits for the productions = $$cha ching$$
 
I just saw a video on Vimeo where Rodney Charters was talking about how they started using the 5D and the 1D as background plate cameras, then as B-cameras, now soon, as A-cameras. I own a Red, 7D & 5D. I push people to go Red but sometimes it just makes sense to go with Canon. Scarlet will change that but I wonder what Canon has up their sneaky sleeves as well. Times are a changing that's for sure. What I worry about most is what is going to happen once the Scarlet & Epic cameras are released? I think MMMOST productions in Los Angeles are going to opt for the Scarlet because it will be cheaper and cheaper to rent. This will force some Epic Owners to compete with those prices. How often are people going to want 100 fps 5k? I shoot slow mo very little in my work.. People are going to want the Scarlet S35 for peanuts, Red One will be put into a shoebox and the Epic will be reserved for those with great negotiation skills and/or demanding projects. But really.. It's not about the gear, right? You don't get hired for your gear unless you're a rental house. People are hiring you because of your talent and your ability to work well with others. So, play your cards safe, don't just look at tomorrow. Look at 5 years from now and picture where you want to be. At the end of the day, it's not the camera, it's the work.
 
I see a trend in Europe towards the Canon 5D and 7D too. I try to educate people whenever i can about why it's not a good idea to shoot a TV commercial with a 5D but the reply is always "but look how good it looks". That drives me crazy!

Honestly, i start to believe that the Scarlets will not be as successful as i thought they would be 6 months ago. Most of the potential buyers will not be able to understand why they need to pay X times more than a DSLR for a Scarlet when they can't see the difference in image quality.

It's depressing really but that's the way things are...
 
Our post facility in NYC has seen a significant increase in Canon footage being handled and treated. I'm not sure if the Canon trend is pushing the envelope or dumbing down expectations. But the volume of stuff being shot with Canon tools has definitely risen.
 
I don't understand how people can grade Canon footage after grading Red.. And then to have to add all these accessories just to make the cameras work in a professional environment. For what? To save a few bucks on rental? Why compromise?
 
I started working in this business in the early 90's while still in school. It was the same complaining back then. I personally experienced.

1990 - 1995ish

Lower cost S-VHS single chip and 3 chip cameras replacing U-Matic porta pack setups. Smaller lighter weight, arguably better initial image quality. Back then it was all about tape generation loss.

BetaSP jobs getting replaced with Mini DV, with that first Panasonic model... the one that looked like a director's viewfinder.

Panasonic F-700 with M2 as a lower cost downgrade from the BVW 400a. I shot hundreds of hours on the F700 rig and loved it, while 400a shooters looked down on me.

Then when I got into film acquisition, 16mm jobs going to the DVW700.

Then the XL1.

1998 - 2001 JVC D29 / Digital S vs Sony D600 / BetaSP.

2000 - 2003ish F900 vs DVX100
 
Richard Darge said:
I don't understand how people can grade Canon footage after grading Red.. And then to have to add all these accessories just to make the cameras work in a professional environment. For what? To save a few bucks on rental? Why compromise?
Click to expand...



because its good enough.

the masses don't care to much about quality its quantity and how quick can i get it?

a younger generation has grown up on the web and all they know is instant gratification.
 
Jerrod Cordell said:
What Lil Wayne video was shot with a 7D? That's insane.

I'm sure the lowlight excuse will be nipped in the bud once more MX Reds are out on the market.
Click to expand...

How can you be surprised his music sounds like its made with garage band..

but i digress

I know they want Scarlet perfect but it wont ever be so why not just release it with the bugs and just upgrade it with firm ware ?

people kind of expect it these days... and i dont mean that just for RED look at the other guys .
 
Expensive RED Rental vs. Inexpensive DSLR Buy

Expensive RED Rental vs. Inexpensive DSLR Buy

Well I have yet to get a RED camera for a shoot (I've been looking at renting one) but when I get quotes of $500-$750 a day just for the body, its hard to justify when Canon has the 7D for only $2000 to buy. And I've noticed that RED renters have gotten a bit cheaper this year and they have been doing a lot more ads and long-term rental discounts then before, but its still a pricey proposition. I'd love to get a basic RED One set-up for 10k grand, I'd pick that over a DSLR in a heartbeat, but for 25k-30k excluding lenses, its well outside a reasonable indie-budget, renting is really the only way to go unless you got a name, distribution contract or cash to burn.

To make matters worst for them, the T2i just came out and its $800. Sure its harder to use and isn't as good as a RED One, and there are some additional production costs. But the core cost ratio is 20:1! For one maybe 2 days of renting a Red One I can own my own camera system! (Again lenses would be required for both, etc).

A local indie filmmaker is looking at the T2i as a promising cheap new camera (add with his video camera) , and I'm likely going to follow that train of thought (DSLR + High-End Consumer Camcorder) using the Camcorder for Run&Gun scenes and the DSLR for everything else. Sure its only 1080p, but unless I really think my stuff is going to the big screen in a big way, all my potential customers (TV, DVD, Blueray, HDTV) max out at 1080p and from the charts unless everyone gets 100" TVs and huge rooms to view them in (we like to call that theaters), that's not going to change anytime soon.

So the above talk about the "masses", they are your main audience. Unless you have a huge budget to wow them with something absolutely stunning (Like Avatar - in 3D), they're not going to notice or care (or pay a premium for it). Sucks but its true.

The Scarlet looked to be a option for me in 2011; to buy - I can't justify renting a sub-$5000 camera. At the same time I wouldn't be surprised if the scarlet gets a good smack-down by the new DSLRv's or any potential video-bodies using DSLR technologies and I stick with a newer HDSLRv. And with more Nikon and Canon Glass being cheaper than a lot of cine-lenses and now Panasonic getting into it with their 4/3's camera, it may be hard for RED to crack that low-budget film market now that the "bigger" players are in the pool!

What does that spell for the renters? Well they are going to have to drop their prices to compete (only if the RED price drops) or reduce their supply to match the remaining big-buget productions left (more likely); that or go out of business :emote_headwall:.
 
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I'm starting to see my commercial clients bring in project shot on Canon. They like it a lot. It saves them money and it looks good enough for them. They make a good argument about having multiple cameras for not a lot of $$$$. They can't see a big difference in quality. Music video guys have jumped to Canons and it gives them access to a quality they couldn't otherwise grab. The one thing I see aside from the obvious technical issues is the look of the focus issues that are very present when they have trouble pulling focus.Not an issue so much for music videos. But it is a little scary having invested big $$$ in Red and staring at big $$$ for accessories and upgrades. I'm in for the long hall though. I notice the difference.
 
Richard I agree, I just spent the better part of 2 weeks grading alot, alot of Canon footage. Instead of grading pixels, one is grading compression blocks. Yes RED footage is very luxurious compared to Canon footage (from a grading perspective). Not hating, just saying.
 
Here in europe I spoke to some production companies, and they see the rise of use of the 7d and 5d happening much more then they could ever have imagined.


I've been asked to shoot some musicvideos for a band , but when there's almost no budget I must admit that there's no other option in the meantime than shooting on canon.
 
But Scarlet will got AF right? Would be pretty useful for my extremesports footage, and the reason why I would consider a scarlet before Canon. If they not releases something similar/cheaper before the scarlet release i.e.
 
the problem is.. even if scarlet is only 10k.. production companies will either A. still hire canon 5 and 7d cameras.. or get scarlets at the same rate..

so if your concern is recouping your money.. your better off with the cheaper camera that will actually work..

kinda sucks.
 
I see the same trend in LA, Music Video directors choosing to shoot with the 5D / 7D.
Top music artists accepting the camera and its look and price point sealing the deal.

The light weight and easy of use seems to outweigh the RED quality for music videos.
I have also seen this in 2 movies, the 5D as a B camera and a 7D for a feature and 7D as a C camera on a television show.

It's also replaced my services for RED shoots on set so its challenging to keep music video work busy with some of my DP's and Directors.

Perhaps scarlet will replace Canons on set, I can only hope.
 
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