Real frame rates...

[Zach Nelson]

I think a set of sticky "READ FIRST BEFORE YOU POST - FAQ's" may help solve the problem of repetitive questions being asked.

I also think private "Owner's Only / Invite Only" forums would at least confine the background noise to manageable levels. It's possible these forums exist, we just can't see them as 'normal' users.

The only other thing I can think of, and Jim this would probably hurt and/or kill you to do, is to go on a heads-down 4-6 month hiatus from the boards. That way people who are accustomed to zero-hour responses to their questions become more respectful / thankful for the time you invest in posting responses.

Finally - for the past 3-4 weeks I've felt that we need a sticky that says, quite frankly - "Stop Asking Questions - We don't have the answers yet - We'll let you know as soon as we do." - It boggles my mind how some people can look at the delivery dates 9-12 months away and expect answers / guesses on very specific things that no one (at this point in the game) could possibly have answers to.

 

[Christian Edwards]

i know this may be a bit of a taboo subject but is there a possibility for the firmware to be cracked...say to give you extra frame rates etc or is it something hardware based or something thats been eliminated from your system...please disregard my last post in this thread profound statement you know im begining to wonder why i even asked this question lets be realistic its not like i expect an answer"sure christian our firmware can be manipulated by any smuck ,so you can sleep at night".new rule for me think first post later . oh and Jim... stop provoking people

 

[Ramesh Jai]

..Now we are finally OK with the concept that not everyone can afford RED. No matter what we do.

Jim

Now that you have attained nirvana it's probably time to take a long break. Sometimes it doesn't work in your favor when you are too accessible. Sounds cruel but it's true.

 

[Rudi Herbert]

Then a group gets together to lobby for that to get done. All the while, it just is not possible. Or if it is, it is at the expense of something else... a trade no one wants to make.
Jim

...and, have you noticed how, generally speaking, most of these so called groups are not current RED owners? Or industry professionals, or industry related, or film/video business associated in any serious manner, even in a low budget, highly independent kind of way? Those who do, and who have spent time doing and paying their dues, understand that tools, such as RED, Arri, Dalsa, Phantom, etc, are built on compromises and their artistic vision can easily be tweaked without being compromised to find an equilibrium with what such tools can and can't do. That vision can ultimately be expressed even when the tools at hand sometimes can hardly offer what the imagination wishes for, because ultimately it is about the vision NOT the tools to realize it. You don't wish for a camera that can achieve such and such resolution or frame rates and THEN figure out what to shoot with that camera, but the opposite. I think it's time to start to disengage yourself from the endless clamoring and petitions of the dreamers and wishers and march forward sure in the knowledge that, to whatever reasonable extent, you have been doing anything logically possible to include the features that represent the best balance between mainstream needs (say 24fps @ 2K) versus the rarely needed or illogically wished for (10000 fps @10K + 20 stops DR or whatever) If they won't let it go, you certainly should Jim. I would.

Here's wishing for a camera that can give me the chance to bring my visions to life in vibrant colors and clarity and with ease of use, anything else I need, I'll figure a way around it. Is there such camera out there?

 

[Raul Gonzo]

The most frustrating part is that I have already fully explained "why not" somewhere on the board, usually more than once.

Jim

I feel sorry for you Jim. I see you post the same thing again and again.
Since I joined Reduser (way back when), I've developed a habit of doing an a search to see what new stuff you have posted. This really helps getting straight to the facts. I was hoping this would become some sort of section or button of this forum.

Recon was a good start, but I think if it was somehow everything you posted in an easy to find way (for beginners), then there would be less redundancy on your part.
Which I'm sure you're tired of.

 

[Eddy Robinson]

I'm slightly confused by the Scarlet frame rate specs. I'm really stoked about being able to get the ready to shoot model for $3,750 (altho I hope the £ vs $ improves!). But why is it that the 2/3" Mysetrium-X model can shoot 3K at 120fps, yet the S35 and FF35 are limited to 30fps?

Short answer: the 3k sensor is generating a lot less data per frame, and the electronics behind the sensor (doing the REDcoding and subsequent dump to recording media) can only handle so much. The Monstro models are not just giving you a larger sensor, but significantly more processing power as well.

 

[John K]

The frustrating thing with the board is that someone (who has no idea what it takes) asks a legitimate question like... "can't you just give us xxx in this body?" It seems innocent enough...

Then, someone else (who has no idea what can or can't be done) says, "of course they can, but they are won't because they are protecting their EPIC"... or some other like statement.

Then a group gets together to lobby for that to get done. All the while, it just is not possible. Or if it is, it is at the expense of something else... a trade no one wants to make.

Pretty quickly, there is mob rule. The most frustrating part is that I have already fully explained "why not" somewhere on the board, usually more than once.

Jim

Hmmm. So, is THIS why other manufacturers tend to be so wary of involving potential customers in their development program?

I suppose it's a bit like being a movie star or something similar. I'm sure most of them would love to be able to go over and sign a few autographs and shake a few fans' hands when they feel like it, but the papparazzi and one-in-a-thousand obsessive nutjobs simply make that impossible.

It seems to be true of just about every creative endeavor; the people who most want desperately to get your attention are ones whose attention you least want:waaa:

I remember a book publisher's website where they published a VERY long list of story ideas they don't want to see any more of! (But that endless wannabe writers thought were cool and original ideas).

Maybe you should do something like that here - a sticky list of the more common impractical suggestions and a short explanation of why they're impractical, possibly accompanied by imaginative suggestions as to what the suggester can do with them

 

[kevinfluet]

...and, have you noticed how, generally speaking, most of these so called groups are not current RED owners? Or industry professionals, or industry related, or film/video business associated in any serious manner, even in a low budget, highly independent kind of way?

I remember hearing this once from a customer service training course: 10% of the population is crazy. You will meet them.

From my own experience, 10% of your customers take up 90% of your time but do not generate 90% of your revenue. Fire the worst 1% of your customers and you are much better off.

I am fascinated that Jim hangs around here listening to all this pot stirring. His obviously genuine frustration of late proves his sincerity in serving his customers. I am thoroughly impressed.

 

[Ariana]

REDuser has 20% nutjobs. Broad spectrum nutjobs from the super tech weenies like dancad and joofa to the non-techies like me.

 

[Leaf Baimbridge]

I remember hearing this once from a customer service training course: 10% of the population is crazy.

Only 10%?

 

[Stephen Limkin]

Jim, I'm pretty new to the forums, in fact I don't own a RED yet... but I will. Take heart, you're doing a great job.

For far too long other companies have been trickle feeding technology advancements, knowing they could milk the end user due to a lack of competition in the marketplace. You have lifted and dropped the bar in so many ways, delivered what no one else was prepared to (i'm sure they have the tech) and at a price in reach for a much wider consumer base.

For me, I will be buying what I need and know will serve me 90% of the time and as for the rest... I'll hire from someone who invested in that technology option.

At the end of the day it's all about the story and how well it's told... through the shared vision of the Director and Producer, the actors, the eye of the DOP, and the creative team.

 

[Tom Lowe]

Let's not pile on. Jim has said his piece about the requests to restore 3K@60fps on FF35 Scarlet, and that's the end of it.

But keep in mind that basically the exact same "band" of people were also the ones crusading in the Epic forum for the better part of this year for "Vista Vision" FF35 Epic and "Medium Format" and IMAX Red cameras. At the time, some people dismissed this as nothing but crazy talk.... but they're not saying that anymore. :wink:

 

[Ryan Booker]

@Jannard

The 'problem' is that you've brought something most people have never even dreamed of almost within reach. That price point tricks the mind into thinking it's competing with a 5D + Handicam.

It is difficult to fathom that you are actually giving them a 5D + a $300,000 cinematic camera.

 

[Joseph Ward]

Let's not pile on. Jim has said his piece about the requests to restore 3K@60fps on FF35 Scarlet, and that's the end of it.

But keep in mind that basically the exact same "band" of people were also the ones crusading in the Epic forum for the better part of this year for "Vista Vision" FF35 Epic and "Medium Format" and IMAX Red cameras. At the time, some people dismissed this as nothing but crazy talk.... but they're not saying that anymore. :wink:

I agree. I think its just the timing because there is nothing wrong with some discussions or asking questions,etc. I realize I should not get into some other peoples conversations, aka Cedrics and Jims, even though this is a public forum and I was trying to make a joke. May all of us including, Jim and me, just chill and enjoy this crazy ride. Viva la Redvolucion!

 

[(= Andrew =)]

Then, someone else (who has no idea what can or can't be done) says, "of course they can, but they are won't because they are protecting their EPIC"... or some other like statement.


Jim

Sorry:waaa:

 

[Jared Caldwell]

Now we are finally OK with the concept that not everyone can afford RED. No matter what we do.

Jim

Not to stir anything up (because we all know that there is enough of this going around), but I really think that everyone can afford RED.

I am at the bottom rung (a poor college student), and there is definitely a way for me to save up for a $3750 starter Scarlet and pay my bills with my $10/hour job (even though I am hoping to save more for an FF35).

The way that your products are priced really does give most everyone an opportunity. Each brain is professional, and each brain has specific functions. A 2/3" fixed Scarlet may not have every feature a 617 Epic has, but I will still be able to achieve professional results. This is unlike any competitor out there.

If I buy a low end Sony, there is no upward mobility to their professional line (something like an F23). With the DSMC system, you start off with professional quality. As your skills and productions grow, your money will as well. This system is the only camera system I have seen that has upward mobility. Though I may not be able to purchase a 617 on day one, I will surely be able to afford some sort of professional brain that will be a means to get there.

I really do believe Red is for everyone.

I am not going to tell people what to do or say, that isn't my place. Just remember to look at the big picture.

Don't stop striving for the highest in offering supportive, constructive feedback, but keep things in perspective please. These are the best of times for us filmmakers. We are the ones who are winning! :}

 

[(= Andrew =)]

that was moving

i applaud you

do you make bumper stickers?

just kidding- i am in his exact same position except i'm going to borrow a little bit from my father and have a garage sale

 

[Simon Dean]

Some people need perspective. In the UK a Sony HDW-F900R is around £43,000 - yes that's GBP! No high frame rates, only HD res. No upgrade possible, ever. Timelapse optional, slow shutter optional.
If you make any money in video at all I think there's a camera to suit in the RED range. If you're a stills person ONLY that's not quite the same, but if you do stills as well as video then you're laughing.

 

[Albert Armes]

Simon, that really does put things in perspective.

 

[Jannard]

Simon... where have you been? I need you to explain this to EVERYONE.

Thanks,

Jim