Re-Labeling RED Clips

[Tom Digges]

Hello All,

In a few months, I will be Cam Op-ing on a smaller, independent crew in which I will likely be wearing many hats. I've been very involved in preproduction thus far and the Director/DP has also asked that I become familiar with the RED workflow process. After reading many forums and articles, I have learned a lot and also discovered that quite blatantly, there is no clear cut process to the post pipeline.

My main reason for this post is to ask about the possibility of renaming RED clips after we ingest them. In my experiences, I have always organized by naming my audio files in a format "23C/2" ( Shot 23C take 2) and naming the video files in the same fashion so that the editor, or whoever may be syncing the two can navigate and find the files easier. However, this was not using a RED camera, and I have heard warnings to NOT rename any RED clips ever. My question is whether or not it is possible to use this same technique and if so, at what point in the post pipeline would be easiest to do so?

Details:
We're shooting on the RED Epic.
We are not using any timecode devices other than the camera, audio recorder, and a good old fashioned slate.
We plan on editing with RAW files in Adobe Premier CS6.

Thanks in advance for your responses!

 

[Bob Gundu]

I would advise to set the names of the clips in the camera first.

 

[Clark Dunbar]

I make folders with the names I want to use - and dump the 'original' r3d named files into the folders. That way I have the name I want and the r3d's file naming/nomenclature stays intact.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

The problem with straight-up renaming a clip in your editing program, is that if the clip gets unlinked somehow (move project from one machine to another, or the project file hiccups, or one of a thousand other reasons) it can be a real pain to re-link the correct File to the correct Name.

If you go in, by hand, and rename the Red Files themselves, well, I wouldn't; every part of the Red filename indicates something, and programs are trained to look at the files a certain way.

Take a look at this video: http://vimeo.com/71226428 Yes it's FCPX, but that is the kind of thinking you could be using in, well, pretty much any editing program. Or, simply, bin your files out into folders within your project that are named/organized by scene and shot. Having worked in a very busy post environment, I can assure you: renaming original files OR renaming what an editing program calls a file has only ever lead to headaches.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I think renaming R3Ds is a bad idea; a very bad idea. Use keywords and such to accomplish what you need but leave the names alone.

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

I think renaming R3Ds is a bad idea; a very bad idea. Use keywords and such to accomplish what you need but leave the names alone.

All footage files, really. I've made interns almost piss themselves out of fear when I caught them renaming P2 media and told them at length how and why it was such a bad idea and then asked very intensely who told them to do so. They didn't want to snitch on a coworker of mine, so they just sat there dumbfounded, having a HUGE MORAL QUANDRY in their heads.

In retrospect, probably should have done that intentionally to every new set of interns. Maybe not the nicest thing in the world, but kind of entertaining to watch . . . and it would have taught them to think critically and to pay close attention to file names.

 

[Tom Digges]

I'm glad I learned the lesson this way then, without the moral quandary or having already made this mistake. Not to press the issue, but would you advise against renaming with audio files as well? (as I previously mentioned above)

 

[Nick Pasquariello]

Let me answer that this way:

If your data is being managed on set, and checksums are being used to verify proper data transfer, then you'll end up with, usually, a text file holding a bunch of hashes. These hashes can, much later on, be compared to the data, and chances are very high that if the hash matches the data, then the data is the same as it was the day you first transferred it. If you transfer your data to 2 drives on set, and then move it onto an external raid, and then back it up to LTO, and move some files onto portable drives to send out to your audio guy, but then your audio guy says "Hey, this file, it's corrupt", well, where did the problem happen? Simply compare the hash to the oldest known copy that you have, and you'll know that either A) The file was corrupted day-of-transfer. Unlikely, as a checksum program should alert you "Hey, there's an issue, should we retry?" on the day of a shoot; B) The file was corrupted somewhere after this initial transfer, so we can just send another copy.

How can this system of verification break down?

Well, if you rename your audio files, you'll have a very, very hard time matching each hash to the file it was derived from.


Basically, for any questions like this, you kind of have to think like a bank robber: what is the easiest way for the system to fail?

Renaming things can certainly work. However, as projects get larger and larger, and thus more and more complex, you'll find that past a certain point, you've backed yourself into a lot of bad habits that you now have to break. The reason a lot of people around here are so firm on this issue and things like it is pretty simple: chances are, we've each learned this lesson the hard way.

I've learned this lesson the hard way. Multiple times. Don't be like Nick.

 

[Bob Gundu]

It also may not be obvious but the RED files do have a naming convention as default.

CLIP NAMING CONVENTIONS
When you press RECORD, the camera automatically creates a unique name for the CLIP being recorded
to the REDMAG 1.8” SSD media. The format of the clip name is Camera Letter + Reel Number + Month +
Day + ** - where ** is a random two digit alphanumeric number used to prevent accidental duplication of
file names.

e.g. A001_C002_0502A6.RDC
Where: A = camera A, 001 = reel 001, C002 = clip 002, and 0502 = May 02, and the digits A 6
are the random characters generated by the camera as described above. Other examples are
shown below:

A001_C001_0502X3.RDC A001_C001_0502G6.RDC A001_C001_0502AB.RDC

I usually put the footage into folders named after shoot days.

 

[Tom Digges]

Haha, okay Nick and everyone else. It's pretty common of me to ask the question "why not?" because that's just how I understand things better. I appreciate the "schooling" as I'd rather learn it this way than making the mistake when it matters most. Simply put, I won't be making this mistake as there are less problematic ways of denoting shot names. (i.e. metadata, binning)

Thanks again!