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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

RAW RULES and 720/1080 debate

You could always uprez that 720P footy!!!!!

Then the Red will be similar to the HVX-200 uprezzing 480P to get 1080P! OH SNAP!!
 
I give up.

It just doesn't make ANY sense to shoot 720 or 1080 with this camera UNLESS you are getting a higher framerate.

But I think I am too old to do this web forum brawling.

Can we get a FIRMWARE VERSION that let's us shoot black and white only too?
 
offhollywood said:
WOW - Thanks for the compliment!

If I WAS intelligent - I would try to express to you that "shooting a lower resolution with same camera" when you can always export a lower resolution later fails to make any scense.

But clearly I am not very intelligent.

I guess I just got lucky plunking down $2K for #6 & #7.[/QUOTE

Please reread before you become offended. I didn't say anything about you not being intelligent. I merely took a stance to end these silly debates.
Click to expand...
 
PMascetta said:
offhollywood said:
WOW - Thanks for the compliment!

If I WAS intelligent - I would try to express to you that "shooting a lower resolution with same camera" when you can always export a lower resolution later fails to make any scense.

But clearly I am not very intelligent.

I guess I just got lucky plunking down $2K for #6 & #7.[/QUOTE

Please reread before you become offended. I didn't say anything about you not being intelligent. I merely took a stance to end these silly debates.
Click to expand...

sorry - deleted the post - giving up on this thread
Click to expand...
 
Mark,

I'm glad you're getting off to such a great start with your two RED cameras, and I appreciate how much info OffHollywood has provided to the RED community. I believe RED is a great tool, and for reference, I've got one on order.

But about the whole "Film is Dead" thing..
If you have a well-budgeted show that can afford film, which isn't everyone, then the Director and Cinematographer should be deciding on what visual approach best reinforces the story they are trying to tell. Shows that can afford 35 shoot S16 for the look. A period film set in the 1940s or 1970s may call for film. There are still films released in B&W, like Good Night and Good Luck. People shoot MOS, Super8 and Polaroids.

RED is providing a wonderful tool for the production community. So are Kodak, Fuji, Aaton, etc. Let's not make declarations of what format is dead, blah. Let's make great films, with great visual storytelling that reinforces and supports the scripts we shoot. I welcome every tool that expands my options.

David
 
I really wish RED would give us like 7-9 filter presets within the camera's menu like Sony does. Stuff like Sepia, Solarize, Stretch, B&W, etc..
 
it could be that most will come around to what offhowllywood is saying ... i think that may happen in TIME .... i think more REDs will need to be out there with persons seeing what offHollywood has been seeing ... as more persons work with RED Raw i think they'll come to understand the benefits of Raw workflow ....
till then one tends to go with what they currently need ( 720/1080 rgb) ...

also perhaps if there were Raw files one could test out ... so far we have Tiffs - well lets face it - it's not the same ...
 
Hi Offhollywood,
You have always been fan of the whole idea of
Red, evidence of this, you have the fist cameras and
are obviously close to the team. I don't mean this in a
bad way so don't be concerned.
But I am left wondering if what your saying with this post is that the
720/1080 stuff from Red maybe don't look so good.
If so, then that's another matter and needs to be discussed
here in great detail. Please don't go off in a huff.
Posting some 4K processed to 720/1080p footage could
help the discussion, if you haven't done this already.
Thanks Mezmo.
 
Thanks for the insight Mark! It's great to hear what the impressions are from those who have the opportunity to try this thingy out. I'm very happy that people are crazy for Redcode Raw and all the possibilities that it presents. Sometimes I think this forum needs a chill pill. And, although I would also like to see the camera spit out 720 (wouldn't hurt, would it?), I also think that when someone posts something like "NOONE WANTS THIS OR THAT" we can also assume that he doesn't REALLY mean "NOONE." Come on guys. Let a man be excited. Do we need to hijack a good post? Deep breath.
 
mezmo said:
Hi Offhollywood,
You have always been fan of the whole idea of
Red, evidence of this, you have the fist cameras and
are obviously close to the team. I don't mean this in a
bad way so don't be concerned.
But I am left wondering if what your saying with this post is that the
720/1080 stuff from Red maybe don't look so good.
If so, then that's another matter and needs to be discussed
here in great detail.
Posting some 4K processed to 720/1080p footage could
help the discussion, if you haven't done this already.
Thanks Mezmo.
Click to expand...

720p and 1080p oversampled from REDCODE RAW 4K looks nothing short of amazing.

We will post some 720 and 1080 h264's for ya' soon - a bit crazy at the moment.

Sorry for the tone everyone - I really meant no offense - I just got a bit charged up - this damn camera can make you ... EMOTIONAL.
 
Thanks for all the ground work that you are laying for all of us. And don't worry about being charged up that just means you're pationate, I would expect nothing less and will be much the same when I get my camera.
 
offhollywood said:
You guys ready ...

720 AND 1080 HD are just TWO of many, DELIVERY FORMATS.

RAW RULES!

COMPACT FLASH IS KILLER.

and I almost forgot to mention FILM IS DEAD.


It's been a week and two days since Offhollywood picked up #0006 & #0007. All but one day, the cameras have been shooting.

We have been testing and demo-ing non-stop for pretty much the WIDEST RANGE of potential clients interested in working with the RED cameras in New York. Including indie features, studio feature, high-end commercials, fashion, and corporate.

I can tell you this - NOBODY WANTS TO SHOOT 720 OR 1080. PERIOD. As soon as you show them the image in 4K, and show them how easy it is to pull a frame and use it as a still for publicity or print - how easy it is to do an "extraction" of just part of frame - or to oversample and produce stunning 720 or 1080 - THEY ALL WANT TO SHOOT IN 4K.

So, back to the debate of eliminating 720 and 1080 as record formats - those of you that screamed "our clients will insist, etc." - I can assure you that IF you clients get a proper demonstration of the workflow - they will ALL insist on you shooting 4K. Period.

It is a HUGE waste of time for RED to put resources into enabeling those formats as record options. There are MUCH better things that the Red team can do with their time that work on something NOBODY will use.

It took me almost a week for the whole RAW thing to REALLY sink in. You need to FORGET everything you know about HD. If you know FILM or better yet, DSLR/RAW shooting - you will have an easier time - but it takes some time to "re-program" your brian.

You shoot for dynamic range and composition. NOT for pretty pictures.

You make pretty picture in POST. And WOW you can swing around in post. It will BLOW YOUR MIND. And I am actually NOT that easy to impress, and pretty post savy - as we do DI's for features.

RAW RULES!!

Once you do it, and do it right - you will NEVER want to shoot any other way. Trust me.

Compact Flash is easy and fast. Small and light. I am very skeptical that we will use the RED DRIVES much. And we are rolling with 8 gig cards. When we can get 16 Gig cards ... screw the drives. For docs and nature ... sure. But I got to tell you - BUY MORE CF - it is KILLER.

FILM IS DEAD.

Yes, people will shoot on it as long as Kodak makes it. But Kodak will only make it if they are making money on it (and still in business). It's really about RELEASE PRINTS now. As long as the primary distribution element for fetaures is a 35mm print - Kodak will be punchin' perfs - but that clock is TICKING.

Film is beautiful and romantic. Personally, I love it. But ... it DOES NOT MAKE SENSE ANYMORE to shoot feature films on 35mm.

Put me in a room with ANYBODY who intends to shoot their film on 35mm for two hours and I will get them to shoot RED 4K.

All it takes is a proper demonstration.

Now, a bunch of you can bash me, and tell me what a jerk I am ... how I don't know anything, etc. etc.

but I am shooting 4K with Red cameras ... every day.
Click to expand...

This post makes me cry for happy. Even if they do a firmware upgrade, I will NEVER dounload it! That would be disrespecting my cameras. Thanks for confirming what I had always hoped.
 
offhollywood said:
720p and 1080p oversampled from REDCODE RAW 4K looks nothing short of amazing.

We will post some 720 and 1080 h264's for ya' soon - a bit crazy at the moment.

Sorry for the tone everyone - I really meant no offense - I just got a bit charged up - this damn camera can make you ... EMOTIONAL.
Click to expand...

Just my two cents, Mark I think you are right to suggest that RED should not spend time developing 720p and 1080p RGB. I think its important to continue this debate because I think its a mistake to push for these formats and a mistake to push for two firmwares. What these guys have done is amazing, (seriously I'm having trouble sleeping after I looked at the color grading of the FXGuide shot). But RED has limited technical resources, let's not spread it thin on stuff we don't need.

If you disagree strongly with me then PM me, I think I can convince you to come to the RAW camp, one on one. I'm a convert myself.

IBloom
 
Thanks for your words, Mark! Very encouraging. I know I'll be shooting features using nothing but 4K, except when slo-mo is needed.

1080p & 720p as recording formats are old hat.
 
Mark, thanks for all your feed back.

It's appreciated!!!

I think it's interesting to note that Jim, who has had more time with the camera than anyone, except Jarred maybe, said pretty much the same thing.

I think we should all really listen to what people who have actually used the camera, have to say. And remember there's nothing like first hand experience.

Now, lets have some more of those tiffs!!
 
offhollywood said:
Sorry for the tone everyone - I really meant no offense - I just got a bit charged up - this damn camera can make you ... EMOTIONAL.
Click to expand...

Mark - we all get emotional around here sooner or later and we don't even have cameras yet. I knew what you meant. Many/Most people won't want to acquire in 720P even if they're delivering 720p. Just keep rockin' on.:w00t:
 
Mark I would really appreciate hearing what you have found to be the best workflow. From capture to finish would be great.

Thanks
Daren
 
After discovering what little I've learned of the Red workflow, all I can say is this sounds absolutely amazing. I mean I am a firm believer in capturing at the highest resolution you can. Hell, I've been doing this for years - shooting 35mm and downrezing to SD for broadcast. What exactly is the big dilemma here. I know there are a lot of complaints about the lack 720 and 1080, but why, it doesn't prevent you from delivering in those formats. If turnaround time is a concern, consider color correction, fx, render time - these are all tasks that need to be done anyways and would downrez add that much more time? If ENG is a concern, well, I honestly think this may not be the right camera for you - at least until the rest of your broadcast society catches up to the curve.
 
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