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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Raven vs Scarlet W

B

Brad Watts

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I've searched for answers and can't really find anything specific and also wanted to hear from people who used both in real world situations. So me and my production company are debating on going with a Raven and feel we need to step up to 4k because our work and client base will benefit. We debated on something like an Ursa mini 4.6k but after some real world testing and seeing some horrible FPN issues, post workflow issues, no hdmi, customer service stories, etc, we decided we want to go with RED as we're very comfortable working with RED RAW as well and have the post production tools to accommodate as well after investing into an $8k Mac Pro, raid, etc. We definitely feel the money going to a RED camera will be worth it.

Now with the list for a Raven being so long and us wanting to upgrade in the near future we don't want to wait until 2018 to get our hands on one as we need to step it up NOW. We started looking at the Scarlet W as it's basically $3k more but you get more options such as mounts and OLPF's. It also shoots 5k and has a larger sensor. My question is regarding the aspect ratio and crop of each of these sensors.

The Scarlet shoots 5k at 2:4? So that's very widescreen and hurts if I need 16:9, etc, which forces me to crop the sides and get larger grain correct? Also when you shoot 4k on the Scarlet does it zoom in on the sensor? We know the Raven shoots 2:1 up to 120 and 2:1 is useable in most scenarios as I choose that aspect quite often as well. What are the real benefits in terms of image, sensor, frame rates and workflow with going with the Scarlet W and potentially getting one late spring?
 
Scarlet-W shoots FF, WS, 16:9, 2:1. There is no need to shoot 2:4 and then crop for your 16:9.

Shooting on 4K does exactly on Scarlet-W as it would on Raven. You would crop in tighter on the sensor to that exact pixel dimension. (So technically the same lens on Raven or Scarlet-W would give you the same image coming from both cameras)

Scarlet-W does everything Raven does and then goes up from there.
 
In the price range of the Raven (and in terms of actually not having to wait a year to get one) I'd go for an FS7 mk1. Hugely in demand and nice and sharp and good enough for a lot of gigs.

If your budget stretches to a Scarlet-W setup plus media and rig then that is a whole different proposition.
I say this as an FS7 owner who has just put a deposit down on a Scarlet-W.
 
The Black Magics can make nice images in the right hands, but there's no comparison when it comes to customer service.

Personally, I'd recommend a Scarlet-W over a Raven. The Raven was tempting, but the fixed lens mount and not being upgradable didn't work for me, partly due to not having any EF mount glass, but the Scarlet-W was enough to get me off of the UM 4.6K bandwagon and into the Red ecosystem.
 
Scarlet W all the way. You get way more camera.

5KHD vs 4KHD
Swappable Mounts
Swappable OLPFs

Its basically a 5K Weapon.
 
You probably don't want to hear this but if you are considering a Raven or Scarlet W package and considered other brands as well take a look at Kinefinity's cameras. I know it's in a different ballgame support wise when you're in the US. But there have been few known problems with the cameras and I've been very happy with mine so far.
 
Steve DiMaggio said:
Brad I have an Epic-W and would be happy to come out on a shoot if you wanted and let you off load some footage, just email me

info@colorroomfilms.com

in nj

steve
Click to expand...

That would be awesome! I'll be in touch soon. We love to link and check out some actual footage.

On another note I'm really impressed with the Red community already.

I appreciate all the input and thoughtful comments as we know shelling out around $15k for a camera is no light decision but it's about more then just image quality. The reputation, reliability, customer service, workflow, modularity, etc all go into it being worth that extra money over something like the Blackmagic Ursa mini 4.6k which can create nice images no doubt.
 
Samir Patel said:
Scarlet-W shoots FF, WS, 16:9, 2:1. There is no need to shoot 2:4 and then crop for your 16:9.

Shooting on 4K does exactly on Scarlet-W as it would on Raven. You would crop in tighter on the sensor to that exact pixel dimension. (So technically the same lens on Raven or Scarlet-W would give you the same image coming from both cameras)

Scarlet-W does everything Raven does and then goes up from there.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that. I must have misread the tech data from their site but this is huge and makes it even easier to decide this is the right choice. So If I'm shooting on 5k FF I can go up to 50 fps and use the whole sensor area which we know is larger then the ravens and would be more equivalent to a 1.6x crop instead of 1.97 correct? But if I use the 4k to shoot maybe 120 fps because I can't in 5k, the sensor size becomes smaller because I'm cropping more?
 
Ben Scott said:
In the price range of the Raven (and in terms of actually not having to wait a year to get one) I'd go for an FS7 mk1. Hugely in demand and nice and sharp and good enough for a lot of gigs.

If your budget stretches to a Scarlet-W setup plus media and rig then that is a whole different proposition.
I say this as an FS7 owner who has just put a deposit down on a Scarlet-W.
Click to expand...

I know FS7's are nice and we've used them before but I'm honestly not a huge fan of the color space of Sony's and we are also looking to rent out the RED as well as work with bigger clients that look for cameras like Arri and RED specifically because of the name they have and workflow.
 
Rakesh Malik said:
The Black Magics can make nice images in the right hands, but there's no comparison when it comes to customer service.

Personally, I'd recommend a Scarlet-W over a Raven. The Raven was tempting, but the fixed lens mount and not being upgradable didn't work for me, partly due to not having any EF mount glass, but the Scarlet-W was enough to get me off of the UM 4.6K bandwagon and into the Red ecosystem.
Click to expand...

This is what I like to hear as always having been a fan of RED. What would make us justify spending that extra $8k? We tried the Ursa and although the image was impressive it just fell short of what we thought it was going to be. We really we're leaning Raven but that's obviously not an option and like you said, without having a lens mount option or OLPF it kind of hurts our options and makes it less future proof.
 
You have to remember also, you currently can't even reserve a spot in the Raven line. You would have to find one used.

steve
 
Steve DiMaggio said:
You have to remember also, you currently can't even reserve a spot in the Raven line. You would have to find one used.

steve
Click to expand...

Yes, which really hurts us because we want a RED within the next month. So Raven isn't an option and maybe that's a good thing because now looking into the Scarlet it seems like a no brainer to spend that extra money.
 
Brad Watts said:
I know FS7's are nice and we've used them before but I'm honestly not a huge fan of the color space of Sony's and we are also looking to rent out the RED as well as work with bigger clients that look for cameras like Arri and RED specifically because of the name they have and workflow.
Click to expand...


EI Mode on the FS7 is great if you expose properly (at least 1 stop over Sony's recommendation).

That said I prefer how Red looks too, which is why I'm buying a Scarlet.

But as I said if your option/budget was Raven-only and not Scarlet then i don't think it comes anywhere near the FS7 in terms of performance (and probably noise too)
 
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