Raven vs Epic X

[Kris Tait]

Hey guys

I was an early bird on the Raven pre-order list but due to shipping delays decided in April to pick up a battletested Epic X to shoot on til the Raven arrived. I've been an avid Red user since the R1MX days but never an owner til now. In the meantime I've grown quite fond of this Epic and have found myself asking, is the Epic X actually still a 'better' camera than Raven. Obviously the latitude on the dragon sensor is superior, but all things considered, Epic X new was also 3-4 times heavier price-wise than Raven but does the price accurately reflect the difference in the two cameras, is the resolving power of Epic and better compression ratios still producing a superior image over Raven, etc etc.? Many parameters to measure and compare and equally many objective experiences as there will be subjective ones in the discussion.
So I thought I'd try and spark a discussion on the topic with people who have shot on both cameras, have knowledge on the topic or experience to share from both cameras to try and, mostly for curiosity sake, determine who the 'winner' is in this ring. Raven or Epic X?

Looking forward to all the banther.

Cheers
Kris

 

[Scott Evans]

As great a camera as epic is I would still say going forward Raven may be a better option if not just to be in the dsmc 2 body type and camera system moving forward

 

[emil_h]

I actually own both of those exact cameras and they're both awesome. I've had my Epic since 2013 and love it to this day, however I would have never suggested that you buy one unless the project(s) that you were working on ended up paying for it. At this point unfortunately the Epic is becoming obsolete (upgrade wise). The X body isn't modular and you cannot upgrade the sensor anymore. The only possibility of upgrading the camera in the future is if the RED gods decide to offer a trade in (which they've mentioned cough cough Jared!!!) Even if they do, it probably won't make sense for someone who just acquired a newly Epic X to buy into it....

The reason I bring this all up is that a big advantage of buying into RED, is its upgrade path. Was there a reason that you didn't go with the Scarlet W instead?

On that note, I do love my Epic and I still need to put some more hours into my Raven to compare the two

 

[mikeburton]

Frankly, it depends on what you expect. As far as image quality the Epic X is still an amazing camera. So if you're not worried about renting the camera and all you care about is the images it can produce at the end of the day the Epic X is probably fine for you for quite some time. However, if you want to rent the camera that's a different story and I'd probably recommend te new systems.

 

[Patrick Grossien]

If the Epic-X Serial hasn't been used for an upgrade, you should hold onto it. Because it should qualify for the EPIC-W upgrade if you want to go that route.

 

[Levi Arnold]

Hey great question. I have shot on all the RED MX cameras and Dragon camera except for the Weapon and Scarlet-W and I owned an MX and Dragon version of the Epic. I now have the Raven and honestly, I'm not finding myself missing the 6K res and better data rates that it afforded me. The only thing that I "miss" is the extra FOV that the Epic/Scarlet sensors give.

What I like about the Raven is it's weight, fan noise, ProRes ad better ISOs plus the fact that there are more opportunities for modularity with the new DSMC2 body. Being able to do cableless stuff seems small, but after not having cables and stuff, it's pretty freakin nice.

Also, the FoolControl stuff is great - I don't use it much, but when I do, it's amazing.

So all that to say, I think that the Raven is better than the Epic, yes.

 

[emil_h]

Yeah Levi I love the FoolControl on the Raven, but you can also use it on the Epic too. I have them on both

 

[Levi Arnold]

True, very true! But on the Epic, if you used FoolControl, you'd loose being able to have a V-lock on there which is why it didn't work for me. I didn't prefer the belt clip or rail mounted options though I ended up using them on more than a few occasions. It woulda been nice to be able to use both.

 

[Enrique Blein]

I actually own both of those exact cameras and they're both awesome. I've had my Epic since 2013 and love it to this day, however I would have never suggested that you buy one unless the project(s) that you were working on ended up paying for it. At this point unfortunately the Epic is becoming obsolete (upgrade wise). The X body isn't modular and you cannot upgrade the sensor anymore. The only possibility of upgrading the camera in the future is if the RED gods decide to offer a trade in (which they've mentioned cough cough Jared!!!) Even if they do, it probably won't make sense for someone who just acquired a newly Epic X to buy into it....

The reason I bring this all up is that a big advantage of buying into RED, is its upgrade path. Was there a reason that you didn't go with the Scarlet W instead?

On that note, I do love my Epic and I still need to put some more hours into my Raven to compare the two

THIS! Please Red, make us an offer on the Red Epic-X trade in!

 

[Daniel Reed]

True, very true! But on the Epic, if you used FoolControl, you'd loose being able to have a V-lock on there which is why it didn't work for me.

Here's an old pic of how I use both vmount and redlink for foolcontrol on Epic-D via rear rails:

 

[Frank Martin]

Epic Has a PL mount. Raven does not.
It might be big deal ( albeit for a limited time.) if you want to Rent camera, or jump in as Owner/Operator on multi can shoots where lenses are being shared.

 

[emil_h]

True, very true! But on the Epic, if you used FoolControl, you'd loose being able to have a V-lock on there which is why it didn't work for me. I didn't prefer the belt clip or rail mounted options though I ended up using them on more than a few occasions. It woulda been nice to be able to use both.

Agreed, you can also use RED volts :willy_nilly:

 

[Manfred Baulig]

Really depends what you r going to do.
I still prefer the DSMC1 body allthoug I've Weapon CF and Raven. On a Gimbal I can mount the V-Mount battery on the side with the Mövi plate, and put the wifi modul on the back. Now use Reds T.H.C. and you can pull focus and adjust iris. No cables needed with EF lenses. We tried foolcontrol on DSMC2, but on some places we lose signal and so on. In June we shot a live gig (2hours) with this combination and everything worked flawless. I'm still hoping someone will make the THC work on DSMC2 again as before.
Picturewise on Raven the blue channel doesnt get as crazy as on Epic-X in Lowlight and Tungsten, but then the compression on Epic in Slomo is much better when u use the mini Mags.

Most of the time we mix the weapon CF with Epic-X.

Regards.