Raven Questions

[Scott Lamoreaux]

Hey guys.

So with the announcement of 4.5K in the Raven I am just about sold on putting my deposit down versus upgrading my Scarlet-MX to Epic-MX (essentially same cost as Raven Package).

1. My question is will 120fps in 4.5K at 15:1 Redcode be usable footage or will the high compression ratio be noisy as all hell in anything but bright well-lit shooting conditions?

2. Depending on the answer above, If my main use is real estate lifestyle films, documentary style films, and fitness videos would you choose the Raven over the Older Epic-MX?

Thank you,

 

[Bérenger Brillante]

Choose Raven without hesitation.
Remember Red One at 120fps ? The compression was high, but it still looked nice if exposed properly.

And 120fps is so slow btw. I rarely use more than 75fps (Pal land here) which should be around 8-10:1. Totally manageable.

 

[Daniel Reed]

A couple things to be aware of...

Epic MX 5K fov is approx around 5.5K on dragon
AND if you need 16x9 you'll be limited to 4K, which is about 3.5K FOV on MX

I have no experience w/ how weapon improves on RAW compression artifacts at higher ratios; however,
On Epic D it is very noticeable to my eyes above 10:1...

While cleaner overall, I notice "digital" blocks in 6K shots (especially in the shadows) w/ the STH OLPF in high dynamic range(sunny w/ hard shadows) shots at 12:1+

the STANDARD OLPF looks to be closer to the LLO filter AND Weapon cleans things up a bit;
SO, perhaps 15:1 low stop spread, may be totally usable...

like the video on facebook Jarred shared of Raven at 13:1(i think) 4K 120 fps:
https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-x...=a43a288b400478742bac7d3ec864cd48&oe=562ED1A0

Or perhaps we can trade lower detailed scene (not outdoors) for higher stop spread


Food for thought (I'll probably add a Raven to my "tool box" next year).

Hey guys.

So with the announcement of 4.5K in the Raven I am just about sold on putting my deposit down versus upgrading my Scarlet-MX to Epic-MX (essentially same cost as Raven Package).

1. My question is will 120fps in 4.5K at 15:1 Redcode be usable footage or will the high compression ratio be noisy as all hell in anything but bright well-lit shooting conditions?

2. Depending on the answer above, If my main use is real estate lifestyle films, documentary style films, and fitness videos would you choose the Raven over the Older Epic-MX?

Thank you,

 

[Demetri Zuev]

Dragon sensor > MX sensor

Over the years I've come to a state of mind where I don't really care about K's anymore, it's all about the quality of the image. Dragon will give you better images than MX in almost any situation, period. All those DPs shooting big movies don't really care about K's either, they do care about the overall quality of the image.

As for compression, expose right, don't try to shoot 15:1 in low light and you'll be ok. As long as you use full sensor area you're good, cropping brings more noise and compression artefacts, that is a well known fact, so just try to avoid that as much as possible to keep your images cleaner.

I find 120fps too much for most situations really, 75 is my sweet spot.

 

[Peter Hodgins]

1. My question is will 120fps in 4.5K at 15:1 Redcode be usable footage or will the high compression ratio be noisy as all hell in anything but bright well-lit shooting conditions?

It will be useable, but for what? What in heavens name do you want to shoot at 120fps? A snowboarder? It's been done.

2. Depending on the answer above, If my main use is real estate lifestyle films, documentary style films, and fitness videos would you choose the Raven over the Older Epic-MX?

Thank you,

Get a SONY PXW X200 for that application.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

A lot of Sports/Fitness shooting that I do involves speed ramping to my taste. I like the ability to over-crank for certain scenes. If anything, I like knowing I harness the possibility of being able to over crank when needed.

I don't want to shoot my media on a camcorder but thanks.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

Link no longer works...

Your opinion would still be get a Raven over the Epic-MX?

A couple things to be aware of...

Epic MX 5K fov is approx around 5.5K on dragon
AND if you need 16x9 you'll be limited to 4K, which is about 3.5K FOV on MX

I have no experience w/ how weapon improves on RAW compression artifacts at higher ratios; however,
On Epic D it is very noticeable to my eyes above 10:1...

While cleaner overall, I notice "digital" blocks in 6K shots (especially in the shadows) w/ the STH OLPF in high dynamic range(sunny w/ hard shadows) shots at 12:1+

the STANDARD OLPF looks to be closer to the LLO filter AND Weapon cleans things up a bit;
SO, perhaps 15:1 low stop spread, may be totally usable...

like the video on facebook Jarred shared of Raven at 13:1(i think) 4K 120 fps:
https://video.xx.fbcdn.net/hvideo-x...=a43a288b400478742bac7d3ec864cd48&oe=562ED1A0

Or perhaps we can trade lower detailed scene (not outdoors) for higher stop spread


Food for thought (I'll probably add a Raven to my "tool box" next year).

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

What compression Ratio will 75fps be at? 8:1?

Dragon sensor > MX sensor

Over the years I've come to a state of mind where I don't really care about K's anymore, it's all about the quality of the image. Dragon will give you better images than MX in almost any situation, period. All those DPs shooting big movies don't really care about K's either, they do care about the overall quality of the image.

As for compression, expose right, don't try to shoot 15:1 in low light and you'll be ok. As long as you use full sensor area you're good, cropping brings more noise and compression artefacts, that is a well known fact, so just try to avoid that as much as possible to keep your images cleaner.

I find 120fps too much for most situations really, 75 is my sweet spot.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

something that hasn't been mentioned is things like weight. the Epic brain weighs 5lbs on its own with out a lens mount or ssd module, the Raven is 3.5 Lbs complete with lens mount and media module. Couple that with the dragon sensor, new body type with built in mics for scratch audio, cordless monitors, and battery modules, wifi, prores, 4.5K REDCODE and woah you have a nice little camera.

also if you like to speed ramp, I have had a lot of fun doing ramps IN camera with the Epic, I'm pretty sure you can do the same with the raven, it looks super smooth. I've Triggered the frame rates with the DSMC Side handle but i think you can accomplish the same effect with fool control

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

So Raven it is? lol

something that hasn't been mentioned is things like weight. the Epic brain weighs 5lbs on its own with out a lens mount or ssd module, the Raven is 3.5 Lbs complete with lens mount and media module. Couple that with the dragon sensor, new body type with built in mics for scratch audio, cordless monitors, and battery modules, wifi, prores, 4.5K REDCODE and woah you have a nice little camera.

also if you like to speed ramp, I have had a lot of fun doing ramps IN camera with the Epic, I'm pretty sure you can do the same with the raven, it looks super smooth. I've Triggered the frame rates with the DSMC Side handle but i think you can accomplish the same effect with fool control

 

[Matthew Quinn]

I ordered one @@

 

[Owen Rennie]

It will be useable, but for what? What in heavens name do you want to shoot at 120fps? A snowboarder? It's been done.


Get a SONY PXW X200 for that application.

I find you comment regarding shooting at 120fps very silly.... Just because someone has already shot a snowboarder at 120fps than it shouldn't be done again? There and many uses for 120... Or did I misinterpret your comment?

 

[Sean Tierney]

Scott - I'm with you on the 120fps.. for me its actually something i use fairly often shooting fitness / racing / action sports etc.. Right now I have the option to shoot 240 but i never touch it. I'd love to see Jarred post the Raven 120 somewhere to see full quality.. but it looked great so far. I think i'll keep my deposit. In the end, for most of us, 15:1 will be okay.

 

[Scott Lamoreaux]

Scott - I'm with you on the 120fps.. for me its actually something i use fairly often shooting fitness / racing / action sports etc.. Right now I have the option to shoot 240 but i never touch it. I'd love to see Jarred post the Raven 120 somewhere to see full quality.. but it looked great so far. I think i'll keep my deposit. In the end, for most of us, 15:1 will be okay.

Thanks Sean - Ordering now.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

Congrats!

 

[Jake Wilganowski]

It will be useable, but for what? What in heavens name do you want to shoot at 120fps? A snowboarder? It's been done.


Get a SONY PXW X200 for that application.

Peter, your first comment isn't very helpful, kinda lame actually. There's lots of uses for 120fps.

 

[Jeffrey Loewe]

It will be useable, but for what? What in heavens name do you want to shoot at 120fps? A snowboarder? It's been done.

Clearly you don't work in action sports at all. Can't believe someone even typed that. I guess we should go tell everyone shooting girls rolling around in lingerie to never over crank the same shots either...

Hey guys.

So with the announcement of 4.5K in the Raven I am just about sold on putting my deposit down versus upgrading my Scarlet-MX to Epic-MX (essentially same cost as Raven Package).

1. My question is will 120fps in 4.5K at 15:1 Redcode be usable footage or will the high compression ratio be noisy as all hell in anything but bright well-lit shooting conditions?

2. Depending on the answer above, If my main use is real estate lifestyle films, documentary style films, and fitness videos would you choose the Raven over the Older Epic-MX?

Thank you,

1. You'll find people all over RU that will argue anything beyond 12:1 is a waste of time. I've shot plenty of 5K 96 and 4K 120 at 15:1 on the MX and on Dragon and had 0 issues. I find it perfectly usable and would be happy to send you a sample so you can see for yourself. And I do similar work to you as well.

2. The best way to answer this question is to figure out what you're working with. Are you using lights? How important is the crop of the sensor in terms of FOV to you?
Personally my plan was to snag a Raven and either keep my Epic Dragon or find someone off loading a Epic MX for cheap since personally I loved the look of the MX sensor.

I'm going to PM you some stuff i've shot using almost all above 12:1 compression ratios. I'm not sure where most people run into issues, my clients have never had a complaint when i've submitted shots. They've never asked what my RedCode ratio was.

 

[Sean Tierney]

Clearly you don't work in action sports at all. Can't believe someone even typed that. I guess we should go tell everyone shooting girls rolling around in lingerie to never over crank the same shots either...



1. You'll find people all over RU that will argue anything beyond 12:1 is a waste of time. I've shot plenty of 5K 96 and 4K 120 at 15:1 on the MX and on Dragon and had 0 issues. I find it perfectly usable and would be happy to send you a sample so you can see for yourself. And I do similar work to you as well.

2. The best way to answer this question is to figure out what you're working with. Are you using lights? How important is the crop of the sensor in terms of FOV to you?
Personally my plan was to snag a Raven and either keep my Epic Dragon or find someone off loading a Epic MX for cheap since personally I loved the look of the MX sensor.

I'm going to PM you some stuff i've shot using almost all above 12:1 compression ratios. I'm not sure where most people run into issues, my clients have never had a complaint when i've submitted shots. They've never asked what my RedCode ratio was.

Think I could take a peek at this footage as well?