RAVEN doubts for a RED newcomer

[Nelson Alexandre]

Hi all,

So my last post here dates back to 2009 when I was evaluating the Scarlet 2/3. Went another route though so I'm still a RED illiterate and I'm back since I'm now evaluating the RAVEN for my next project.

I've been reading about the camera for the past couple of days on my spare time but I continue to have some questions that I ask you all RED experts to clarify for me if you don't mind.

I will try to be succinct:

1. I see RED announcing 2 packages (Jetpack and Base I/O). The first one for use handheld and for gimbals (which I'll use often), and the second for docs (which I mostly do). So I'm very confused on what package to buy (or if I need to buy any of these and not another solution that RED doesn't offer in a package for what it matters), and what are the main benefits and drawbacks of those two when compared.

For what it seems, I can only assume the second one not being ideal for gimbals since it is powered by a V-Mount brick which adds some weight to the package. Is that it?

2. Red Mini-Mags. I can read in RED's website that "RED MINI-MAG® is the smallest, fastest, and most powerful media option for your RED camera". Yes, I believe them if they say so, but it's also the most expensive buck for MB that I've seen in a media card. Even more expensive than the already outrageously expensive CFast 2.0 cards so my question is: Is it really necessary? If RED says "most powerful media option" it has to be more options than this one right?

3. I assume that all RED fans will know the next two answers for sure (and I know Google is my friend but try to search for these two and you will find a "ear say" on most websites), so:

a) Is this a Rolling or a Global Shutter camera?
b) What is the base ISO?

(believe it or not those two aren't on the RED Tech Specs page!)

4. Do I really need to buy their 4,5" touch screen? Is it going to do something that my 7" Marshal or my Alphatron EVF won't?

Thanks in advance for your insights on this matter.

 

[Stacey Spears]

1. Which gimbal?

I think the package saves a bit money wise, have not looked closely enough myself as Raven is not in my future. By having the Base IO with integrated v-mount, you don't need another battery module. There is a bit of savings there vs. buying the Base IO and then buying an ET V-mount, Gold mount or XL module. Of course, as you point out, a battery on the back may get in the way of the gimbal.

The Jetpack does have its limitations. You can't mount a battery on the camera, but you can use a batter belt clip or other means via power cable. It does not have HD-SDI output, which some people need. It has no audio inputs, though there are scratch mics on the front of the camera. It may lack other controls as well. You should read up on the Jetpack vs. the Base IO to see the other differences.

2. Yes, no other way to record media from RED. Lots of threads on this, no reason to rehash here.

3.
a. Rolling shutter. There is no mechanical shutter on RED cameras.
b. They don't publish a single base ISO, just a range. Again, lots of threads. I recommend using Google like this "site:www.reduser.net blah" where blah is phrase you are looking for. This is the BEST way to search RU.

4. No. You can use any 3rd party display that supports HDMI if you have a Jetpack or Base IO. Or HD-SDI if you have the Base IO. You will need a way to control the camera either through the sidekick or through wifi with an app such as foolcontrol. If you go wifi, it is off by default when you get the camera, so you will need a way to enable wifi the first time.

 

[Nelson Alexandre]

Thanks for your quick reply Stacey.

Regarding point 2, if the Base I/O sends a video signal trough HDMI and SDI for monitoring can't it be used to record externally?

Thank for your tip regarding 3b

4. So I don't have access to menus on any other touch screen monitor but the RED 4,5"?

 

[Stacey Spears]

Yes, you can use an external recorder if you have HDMI/HD-SDI output. You are limited to 1080p.

The menus are available over HDMI and HD-SDI, you just need a way to control them. With the touch screen you can obviously touch the buttons. With the sidekick you get an arrow pad, wheel and enter button to navigate the menus. With foolcontrol and wifi you can also control the camera.

 

[Kevin D'Haeze]

So I don't have access to menus on any other touch screen monitor but the RED 4,5"?

You can access the menus via any of the Red touch screen monitors. Or, if you want to use a third-party monitor, you add the SideKick (around $1,100) that gives you menu/setting controls on the side of the camera itself. Or, as mentioned, use the foolcontrol app to control the camera via wi-fi.

 

[Terry VerHaar]

I was where you were when RED was talking about the 2/3" Scarlet and was, at first, disappointed when it was replaced by the large sensor Scarlet-X that was ultimately released. But, I got over it. All I can say is, you made a huge mistake.

I bought the Scarlet-X, then updated to Scarlet Dragon last April and have never looked back.

So, to help you avoid making that mistake again...

1) Jetpack/Base IO - I haven't been studying the Raven deal so I am not an expert here but you will need at least one of these in order to connect various capabilities (power, monitors, etc) to your Raven. While the Jetpack is light and great for drones and gimbals, I am going to guess you'd be happier with the Base for most of your needs. You may end up with both but, IMO, the Base would be a better first one. YMMV - study the RED store!

2) Mini-mags are you only option for Raven. It comes with the mini-mag module built in so that is what you'll use. Red's older tech, the 1.8" SSDs, are being phased out in favor of the minima's which are smaller, lighter, faster. There is a lot of anguish and discussion about the cost of RED media and their insistence on a proprietary system, but RED has always insisted on absolute reliability over "cheap" alternatives and I doubt that will change anytime soon. Get 2 cards to start and plan on offloading often - which is always a good practice anyway.

3)
a - rolling shutter but you should know that the read/write times for RED's sensors is very fast so rolling shutter artifacts are pretty much a non-issue
b) depending on who you talk to and how one evaluates this question, you may get some different answers, but I think it is fair to say that most people consider "base ISO' to be 800.

4) You don't have to buy the RED Touch Screen but, yes, it will do a lot that your other monitors won't; namely allow you to control your camera very easily and powerfully. If you choose not to buy it, you can control the camera in other ways, including with a terrific iPhone app called Foolcontrol, but at $1450, given it's tight integration into the camera system and it's top quality, I'd really consider getting it.

I hope that helps. I imagine others will pop in to offer some additional thoughts.

Get on the RED wagon with Raven and, IMO, you will never be disappointed that you did.

Good luck!

 

[Ash Worth]

Foolcontrol is $149 not $1450
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/foolcontrol/id888231700?mt=8

 

[Joe Kleber]

Foolcontrol is $149 not $1450
https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/foolcontrol/id888231700?mt=8

I think Terry was referring to the 4.7" monitor.

Here's some additional thoughts to consider for #4 ...

Buying the Sidekick = $1,150 and you're done if you already have a monitor.

4.7" Monitor = $1,450 (Definitely the most convenient way to control a RED camera) ...but it appears that it only pans and doesn't tilt so if this is going to bother you you're going to have to spend an additional $415 on an LDC CABLE and a LEMO ADAPTOR B + additional $ for a NOGA arm if you don't already have one.

 

[Matthew Quinn]

I would definitely advise on getting some sort of touch screen. is the best way to start learning red cams. and yes fool control is helpful and amazing, but I believe you will still need to make a connection with the camera..(on my dragon we had to set up the wifi modual to talk to the fool control) I don't see how you can do that without the touch screen

 

[Nelson Alexandre]

Yes, you can use an external recorder if you have HDMI/HD-SDI output. You are limited to 1080p.

That is a really important piece of information. Thanks.

You can access the menus via any of the Red touch screen monitors. Or, if you want to use a third-party monitor, you add the SideKick (around $1,100) that gives you menu/setting controls on the side of the camera itself. Or, as mentioned, use the foolcontrol app to control the camera via wi-fi.

I was trying to find a way to cut expenses But I'm seeing that cutting on one side will add on another.

I was where you were when RED was talking about the 2/3" Scarlet and was, at first, disappointed when it was replaced by the large sensor Scarlet-X that was ultimately released. But, I got over it. All I can say is, you made a huge mistake.

I bought the Scarlet-X, then updated to Scarlet Dragon last April and have never looked back.

So, to help you avoid making that mistake again...

1) Jetpack/Base IO - I haven't been studying the Raven deal so I am not an expert here but you will need at least one of these in order to connect various capabilities (power, monitors, etc) to your Raven. While the Jetpack is light and great for drones and gimbals, I am going to guess you'd be happier with the Base for most of your needs. You may end up with both but, IMO, the Base would be a better first one. YMMV - study the RED store!

2) Mini-mags are you only option for Raven. It comes with the mini-mag module built in so that is what you'll use. Red's older tech, the 1.8" SSDs, are being phased out in favor of the minima's which are smaller, lighter, faster. There is a lot of anguish and discussion about the cost of RED media and their insistence on a proprietary system, but RED has always insisted on absolute reliability over "cheap" alternatives and I doubt that will change anytime soon. Get 2 cards to start and plan on offloading often - which is always a good practice anyway.

3)
a - rolling shutter but you should know that the read/write times for RED's sensors is very fast so rolling shutter artifacts are pretty much a non-issue
b) depending on who you talk to and how one evaluates this question, you may get some different answers, but I think it is fair to say that most people consider "base ISO' to be 800.

4) You don't have to buy the RED Touch Screen but, yes, it will do a lot that your other monitors won't; namely allow you to control your camera very easily and powerfully. If you choose not to buy it, you can control the camera in other ways, including with a terrific iPhone app called Foolcontrol, but at $1450, given it's tight integration into the camera system and it's top quality, I'd really consider getting it.

I hope that helps. I imagine others will pop in to offer some additional thoughts.

Get on the RED wagon with Raven and, IMO, you will never be disappointed that you did.

Good luck!

1. I suspect you're right on that one.

3a. Very good to know since my next project will be very action driven.

4. Yes. I guess you're right and as I commented on Kevin's post I guess there's no free lunch when trying to cut costs on a RED camera.

Regarding your last comments, I've reached here this time since I'll definitely need a bigger resolution (mainly for stabilizing and reframing in post), slow motion and an efficient codec that allow me to shot at least 4K 10-bit 4:2:2 and store those files in a convenient way. My first thought was the competition (namely BMD), since it would fit my budget nicer but it's bit rates are insane, even for ProRes so I've begin searching for a most efficient Codec.

I don't know if I can say this on a RED forum but if I'm allowed, I've narrowed my search to RAVEN and FS7. Both have very efficient codecs. The last one has the advantage of internal NDs, higher sensitivity and a mount which would accept a speedbooster and those low light features will certainly come at hand at some point on a run and gun project like this one.

Anyway, FS7 plus Metabones is very near RAVEN's price point so I started to think, why not?

 

[Joe Kleber]

...and yes fool control is helpful and amazing, but I believe you will still need to make a connection with the camera..(on my dragon we had to set up the wifi modual to talk to the fool control) I don't see how you can do that without the touch screen

This is a good point.

With the WEAPON, you can can use the Sidekick to activate WIFI. I'd be surprised if the RAVEN was any different. ..but yeah, this means you'd at least have to purchase the Sidekick to get control before you can use Foolcontrol.

 

[Kevin D'Haeze]

I was trying to find a way to cut expenses But I'm seeing that cutting on one side will add on another.

Very true... I've configured and re-configured, trying to weigh costs and functionality... and almost every path leads to a similar price point. On the plus side, I guess that means just go with the configuration that matches your personal workflow and then go create something awesome!