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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

R3D to DNxHD?

Avid can track the frame count as well in addition to the timecode and edgecode. The DPX column will "track filename-frame" in a 32 alphanumeric-6 frames. REDrushes and MetaCheater, (As well as REDCINE via Avid's XML to ALE)populates this automatically and will look something like:

A001_C001_0922-000000

the above would be for the sync point, you could start at frame 000001 or whatever you choose. From then on it is a sequentail frame count for every frame you advanced or use in the edit.

A001_C001_0922-000000
A001_C001_0922-000001
A001_C001_0922-000002
A001_C001_0922-000003
A001_C001_0922-000004
etc.


Michael
 
Since you mention it, why Avid insists on using the hyphen (‐) as a counter separator, while most are using a dot (.), like:

A001_C001_0922.000000.dpx
A001_C001_0922.000001.dpx
A001_C001_0922.000002.dpx
A001_C001_0922.000003.dpx
A001_C001_0922.000004.dpx
 
DPX column was a change based on the KeyKode column which used a - and a + as spearators. Inside the Avid it seperates the counting from the prefix. At the directory level which does not count, it is not so much an issue -

Michael
 
trevora said:
Hi Nigel

Could you elaborate on the DV (infortunate abbreviation!) workflow/equipment/ballpark cost for R3D --> DNXHD

Presumably this is a baked in process but with the possibility EDL trace (© GVG) for conform & grade via Nucoda.

Our Red usage (imminent) mostly will not allow (time/money/ability to change up to broadcast) for a conform stage, better to do a decent best light at the R3D --> DNX stage and further tweak that during full resolution edit.

Unless Nucoda is capable of being a full editing tool that is ;-)

Cheers

Trevor
Click to expand...

Trevor Hello,

Digital Visions software (Nucoda) are conforming tools, so whilst we have tools for adjusting edits etc, it is not a full editing system.
The workflow is simple - load the R3D files into the Digital Vision system and then export MXF (DNxHD)
I'm not sure what you mean by baked in - perhaps the best thing to do would be to get a demo. We have offices in Stockholm, London, LA, and Hong Kong. You should contact one of these offices about the price as well. Find the contact details at http://www.digitalvision.se/company/contact_us.htm

Regards

Nigel
Director of Training
www.digitalvision.se
 
gbalaji said:
Nigel,

We try to intergrate dpx exported from RedCine and Avid CMX3600 EDL in to Digital Vision and unable to link the footage.

Your thoughts please...
Click to expand...

Hello,

This is an easy workflow and full details are included in the Red section of my training manual.
Please contact me direct so I know where you are.

Regards
NigelNigel Hadley
Director of Training
Nigel.Hadley@digitalvision.se
 
Nigel Hadley said:
Hello,

This is an easy workflow and full details are included in the Red section of my training manual.
Please contact me direct so I know where you are.

Regards
NigelNigel Hadley
Director of Training
Nigel.Hadley@digitalvision.se
Click to expand...

Thanks Nigel.

It worked for me atlast. Had some issues with CMX 3600 EDL from Avid.
 
Has there been any progress from Avid? We are a Avid post house, however we are thinking that we may need to look for some outside solutions to a more efficient workflow. Comment like, "While RED is an important format, it is not the only format that NLE's that play in all market segments need to deal with", are not what we want to hear. Just letting you know that comments like that don't do alot for PR.
 
Sorry Nigel, just found your reply here
Nigel Hadley said:
Digital Visions software (Nucoda) are conforming tools, so whilst we have tools for adjusting edits etc, it is not a full editing system.
Click to expand...
OK, that answers my main question.
Nigel Hadley said:
The workflow is simple - load the R3D files into the Digital Vision system and then export MXF (DNxHD)
Click to expand...
I meant that, once I have graded and exported MXF files from Nucoda and imported them into Avid, the grade is then 'baked in'. There is no easy way back to the RAW files to regrade. Unless the metadata is coming across in an ALE and there is some way of 're-conforming'? See why I want full editorial capabilities in the grading/DI box...

I did listen to the fxguide podcast with Simon, who I think was saying that 4K r3D playback was about 2fps at present and that it might be better to transcode to DPX for grading purposes. (But that may well have been stale information.)
 
We threw in the towel and ordered a new box with FCP Studio yesterday.


Hope Avid gets the picture.
 
What part of the Avid workflow did not work for you? Transcode to PRores or transcode to DNxHD is the same so that's a wash - Avid gives you the flexibilty to to track more metadata, change the clip name, etc. Just curious.

Michael
 
It's true by Avid Workflow you track more metadata. You are tracking both the Time of the Day and SMPTE Time Code which is not possible at this point using FCP workflow since Quicktime can hold only one Time Code track.

My only worry is when I render Avid DnXHD out of Red Rushes and when I try to import to Avid SD project there is no option to use the codec, quality and time. Did you have any thoughts on this Michael?
 
MichaelP said:
What part of the Avid workflow did not work for you? Transcode to PRores or transcode to DNxHD is the same so that's a wash - Avid gives you the flexibilty to to track more metadata, change the clip name, etc. Just curious.

Michael
Click to expand...
That is true, but importing the DNxHD's to AVID (MXF) is also very timeconsuming. No need for that in FCP.
 
MichaelP said:
What part of the Avid workflow did not work for you? Transcode to PRores or transcode to DNxHD is the same so that's a wash - Avid gives you the flexibilty to to track more metadata, change the clip name, etc. Just curious.

Michael
Click to expand...


Our main problem was time! We operate on very quick turnarounds (doesn't everybody :wink: ) - every minute/hour counts. Yes we know and accept (today) that you need to transcode to a format that is natively supported by your edit system (to edit freely without constant renders) but can't accept having to wait 2 hours for every 1 hour of Red DNxHD footage to be imported into our Avid Media Composer Nitris DX and that's without the hoops you need to jump through to get sync sound (for PC users).

With our new MacPro/FCP setup - We transcode the files in REDrushes to ProRes then open the files up in FCP - job done - HD1080P and audio in sync ready to edit instantly.

I have been editing on Avid for the past 10 years and absolutely love it - I don't want to offend any FCP users but for me there is no NLE that has the feel of an Avid (I know there are many FCP users that will say the same about FCP), but the Avid/Red workflow is far from perfect.

I know its only a matter of time until Avid's Red workflow is sorted but its time that we didn't have!


Thanks,

Tom
 
trevora said:
Sorry Nigel, just found your reply here

I meant that, once I have graded and exported MXF files from Nucoda and imported them into Avid, the grade is then 'baked in'. There is no easy way back to the RAW files to regrade. Unless the metadata is coming across in an ALE and there is some way of 're-conforming'? See why I want full editorial capabilities in the grading/DI box...
Click to expand...

Trevor Hi,

Ok the grade is "baked in" but lets imagine that a re-grade is needed for some reason - return to the Film Master which of course still has the original Raw R3D files - regrade, then re-export and finally relink in the Avid - simple process and should achieve what you want ( I hope ! )

Regards

Nigel
 
Red Uakari said:
Our main problem was time! We operate on very quick turnarounds (doesn't everybody :wink: ) - every minute/hour counts. Yes we know and accept (today) that you need to transcode to a format that is natively supported by your edit system (to edit freely without constant renders) but can't accept having to wait 2 hours for every 1 hour of Red DNxHD footage to be imported into our Avid Media Composer Nitris DX and that's without the hoops you need to jump through to get sync sound (for PC users).

With our new MacPro/FCP setup - We transcode the files in REDrushes to ProRes then open the files up in FCP - job done - HD1080P and audio in sync ready to edit instantly.

I have been editing on Avid for the past 10 years and absolutely love it - I don't want to offend any FCP users but for me there is no NLE that has the feel of an Avid (I know there are many FCP users that will say the same about FCP), but the Avid/Red workflow is far from perfect.

I know its only a matter of time until Avid's Red workflow is sorted but its time that we didn't have!


Thanks,

Tom
Click to expand...

Great post Tom,

I just suggested that same work-flow to one of my clients that happens to be a Big Avid house, They are just starting to dabble in FCP.

My theory has always been that Apple/FCP have their place & a following, but "hard Core " Craft editors really enjoy Avid. We all look forward to the day, (maybe 11/13/08) day when Red introduces a turnkey work flow and the Red codec is adopted as a pull down menu option on any system...(May always involve some type of trans-code time)!

Threading, faster processors & CUDA will all help with lower trans-code times.
 
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