R3D Demo in Media Composer 5

[jake blackstone]

Michael.
I had posted this question in another discussion, so my appologies for repeating myself.
Just wondering, if there is a way after finished editing with RAW files, to export the resulting timeline as DPX sequence, with or without RedRocket? This way there would be no conforming issues and you could start grading right away. Can MC5 even do a full 2k or 4k debayer?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Michael.
I had posted this question in another discussion, so my appologies for repeating myself.
Just wondering, if there is a way after finished editing with RAW files, to export the resulting timeline as DPX sequence, with or without RedRocket? This way there would be no conforming issues and you could start grading right away. Can MC5 even do a full 2k or 4k debayer?
Thanks in advance.

I'm not MichaelP, but I'd imagine his answer would be:
- you can export 1080p Quicktimes or 16bit TIF sequences from Media Composer (which can easily be converted to dpx'es - although lacking some metadata, I know)
- for the full 2k / 4k DPX deal, that's what Avid Symphony or Avid DS are for
- and hey, we still have the best EDL export options by far (handles, etc)
- also, see Monkey Extract and RedCine-X output workflows

I understand this position, even though I'd love it were otherwise. I would love to export DPX'es but instead will use an EDL and a DaVinci.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[jake blackstone]

I'm not MichaelP, but I'd imagine his answer would be:
- you can export 1080p Quicktimes or 16bit TIF sequences from Media Composer (which can easily be converted to dpx'es - although lacking some metadata, I know)
- for the full 2k / 4k DPX deal, that's what Avid Symphony or Avid DS are for
- and hey, we still have the best EDL export options by far (handles, etc)
- also, see Monkey Extract and RedCine-X output workflows

I understand this position, even though I'd love it were otherwise. I would love to export DPX'es but instead will use an EDL and a DaVinci.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Thanks for the info Bruce.
Unfortunately, sometimes I can spend as much time conforming as grading. Yes, in theory it shouldn't take much time to conform, but it's only in theory. In reality, as a result of client's mistakes, conforming process is time consuming and can be very frustrating. And you better believe it, that I will charge you for the "privilege". I'm being proactive, while constantly looking for ways for my clients to save money. This way they would have some money left, for professional color grading and they could stop wasting their money on unnecessary and duplicate processes. I use EDL every day, but it is an outdated and very limited tool (yes, even with handles). It's time to start thinking outside of the box and EDL isn't it...
Said that, if in fact MC5 can output 16 bit TIFF sequence of the timeline (full debayer 2k and 4k?), then it can be graded just fine. No DPX needed...

 

[Bruce Allen]

Said that, if in fact MC5 can output 16 bit TIFF sequence of the timeline (full debayer 2k and 4k?), then it can be graded just fine.

It can do 16bit TIFF - as long as final output resolution is scaled down to 1920x1080 from the 2K / 4K original.

Unfortunately, sometimes I can spend as much time conforming as grading. Yes, in theory it shouldn't take much time to conform, but it's only in theory. In reality, as a result of client's mistakes, conforming process is time consuming and can be very frustrating. And you better believe it, that I will charge you for the "privilege". I'm being proactive, while constantly looking for ways for my clients to save money.

Agree. But IMHO none of the cheap offline editing systems are that good at outputting 2K or 4K dpx sequences... I just tried to do this on a feature with FCP and Premiere and found it very slow and unreliable - I had to write some custom scripts and even then it wasn't great. Ended up in desperation going FCP -> Premiere -> After Effects -> dpx! But After Effects wasn't the best exporter - took days, crashed every 50 or so cuts, etc.

At least with Avid, you can always take your project onto an Avid DS. If I had a lot of clients that wanted to do 2K / 4K stuff, I'd think of buying a DS for sure, or setting up a relationship with a good DS operator or facility - it'd save you tons of time and therefore money.

With FCP / Premiere, if you want to do a reliable 4K online, you have to go to Smoke or Scratch or Quantel or DS, which sucks because now you're moving to another vendor and have to conform (as you mentioned).

Anyway, I'm sure that they will eventually add higher than 1080p support to Media Composer. 4:4:4 RGB 1080p is a new feature for v5 and it's cool to see them moving in that direction. For now, I'm just happy that I have reliable HQ 1080p output from my favorite editor. Unlike FCP, where the colors shift, or Premiere, which just crashes a lot.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[jake blackstone]

Using any other software to output DPX doesn't resolve my main concern- conforming. For work with Red I use FilmMaster, so AAF is a much better option for conforming RAW files, than EDL, but it is still conforming...
My understanding is, that MC5 can use RedRocket for rendering. So how difficult would it be to utilize it to render the timeline as a DPX or Tiff sequence at full debayer?
BTW, with FCP you can use Glue Tools for DPX export, but like with everything, that uses CPU for render, it's not very fast.

 

[MichaelP]

In this first implementation of R3D, we did a lot of work to get the player pipeline to recognize greater than HD resolutions. It does scale everything down to the project type of which the largest at this time is 1920 x 1080. We are looking to change that in future versions.

So for the time being, it is an HD offline and finishing solutions, and needs that go beyond HD need to leverage the metadata into other systems such as Avid DS, Baselight, Digital Vision, Scratch, that all take advantage of AAF - a richer description that EDL.

We are working on the LUA as an export from our XML - while not ideal for some workflows, it will allow you to take advantage of REDCINE-X to get to the finisihing platform of your choice at the desired resolution.

Michael