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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

R1 MX Upgrade to Dragon?

Interesting.
I actually just visited my Alma Mater today for a RED camera and workflow demo.
This is the 3rd time I was asked to do so.

I felt kind of bad seeing that the department's Arri SRs were not getting much use by students
and the predominant filmmaking camera seemed to be Canon DSLRs.
DSLRs are cool and economical to learn on but to truly learn the ins and outs of
modern production and post production the RED ONE is perfect.

I will pass info to the department about this program.
Thanks for the heads up.

Congratulations on your department's new RED ONE.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Tom Greenberg said:
Thanks, Brian. We had a similar relationship for several years with a local production company who would bring their cameras in for demos and also let us use them occasionally on shoots. But it is quite exciting to finally have our own. Feel free to have your college's faculty contact me if they want more information.

Tom
tom.g (at) compass.edu
Click to expand...

Thanks again Tom. I will pass this on to them.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Matt Fleming said:
Heya Tom!

Hmmm, lets try this:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?59528-EPIC-S&p=773680&viewfull=1#post773680

Hope all is well!
-m
Click to expand...

Of course, Scarlet can now be upgraded but consider these too.

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...d-with-Monstro&p=322068&viewfull=1#post322068

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread...d-with-Monstro&p=322104&viewfull=1#post322104

This is from a thread a good while back and some of this is naturally outdated but it does show Jim Jannard's intent.

Ultimately this matter is in RED's hands.
I have my doubts they would just passover several thousand cameras that can be potentially uprgraded but who knows.
They made good on being committed to their customers this far so why should that change now.

At the end of the day I'm concentrating on my current gigs and getting my next one.

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Brian Timmons said:
Of course, Scarlet can now be upgraded but consider these too.
Click to expand...

Hi Brian,
I'm wondering about a few things you've posted here but please know that I'm not challenging you ...I want what you are saying to be true....but I just don't see where you are getting your information and would like to know how you have arrived at these conclusions. What do you mean that "Of course, Scarlet can now be upgraded"?

The links you posted are almost 4 years old and are refering to the R1 upgrade from M to MX. I hope you are correct, but it seems pretty unambiguously clear by Jim himself:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?59528-EPIC-S&p=773693&viewfull=1#post773693

Scarlet "does not have the capability to be upgraded to the Dragon sensor".

Either way, I'm still hoping you are right and Jim is wrong... :)
 
Matt Fleming said:
Hi Brian,
I'm wondering about a few things you've posted here but please know that I'm not challenging you ...I want what you are saying to be true....but I just don't see where you are getting your information and would like to know how you have arrived at these conclusions. What do you mean that "Of course, Scarlet can now be upgraded"?

The links you posted are almost 4 years old and are refering to the R1 upgrade from M to MX. I hope you are correct, but it seems pretty unambiguously clear by Jim himself:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?59528-EPIC-S&p=773693&viewfull=1#post773693

Scarlet "does not have the capability to be upgraded to the Dragon sensor".

Either way, I'm still hoping you are right and Jim is wrong... :)
Click to expand...

It's cool Matt.
RED users discussing RED issues is what the forum is for.

Regarding Scarlet, please read this post from the Scarlet FAQ.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...T-ANNOUNCEMENT&p=855514&viewfull=1#post855514

As far as RED ONE goes, that thread discussed RED ONE upgradability to Monstro.
Dragon is the first sensor in the Monstro family.
There were many statements made in the past (besides what I posted) that stated that the RED ONE would be upgradable
and that included Monstro.

To be honest I remember reading that RED designed the hardware inside the RED ONE to be quite modular with upgradability in mind.
I really would have to search to find that particularly statement though.

I personally don't know if this is still the case but I have no reason to believe it's not.

RED now has new cameras and tech that I'm sure they would prefer to concentrate on.
I think RED will likely make an announcement when they are ready.

Hope this helps.

P.S.- Jim Jannard owns the company so I'm at a slight disadvantage of making him "wrong" so to speak. :smiley:

Brian Timmons
BRITIM/MEDIA
 
Brian Timmons said:
It's cool Matt.
...Regarding Scarlet, please read this post from the Scarlet FAQ.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...T-ANNOUNCEMENT&p=855514&viewfull=1#post855514
Click to expand...

Thanks Brian, that's what I needed to see. As you may know, Jims matra is "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."
Your link is dated 11-03-2011 and clearly refutes the Jims earlier post saying the exact opposite that the Scarlet won't be upgradeable to Dragon. Thanks for providing that link. You should let our good friend Joseph Hudson know:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showth...for-RED-ONE-MX&p=950030&viewfull=1#post950030

I appreciate your optimism regarding the R1 upgradeability to Dragon and hope it turns out to be true for all the r1 owners out there. Are you an R1 owner?
Cheers,
-Matt
 
Just a fast FYI on Scarlet upgradeability- remember, back then when those posts were made, Scarlet was a 3K camera for (Around) $3K, too. Just saying, things really do change.

We've gotten a lot of back and forth on Dragon for Red One over the years. It does seem like there's been a fair number of comments from Jim that make it clear he wants to offer a sensor upgrade for our cams. Even incredibly recently, during Phase Two, he intimated that those who sold their R1s would be sorry (I can't find the post at the moment, it may have been zapped), sparking some speculation about a possible upgrade. A few of my local R1 owner friends are extremely confident that there will be a sensor upgrade, but can't offer anything concrete. Whether this is just incredible optimism, prescience, or something else, I do not know.

It feels to me like, hardware-wise, it could be done. After all, if Scarlet needs new boards put in, why not R1? I agree- lotta room in that body to do it. And the horsepower thing? Well, the R1 still shoots some things that the Scarlet can't. Is it an issue with components issues/sourcing/dedicating its resources to one form factor only? Is it cost effective and a good business decision to offer this? No clue.
 
patrickortman said:
It feels to me like, hardware-wise, it could be done. After all, if Scarlet needs new boards put in, why not R1? I agree- lotta room in that body to do it. And the horsepower thing? Well, the R1 still shoots some things that the Scarlet can't. Is it an issue with components issues/sourcing/dedicating its resources to one form factor only? Is it cost effective and a good business decision to offer this? No clue.
Click to expand...

Unless Jim or Jarred refute their recent statements about it not being possible due to the limits of the RED ONE design and the RED ONE reaching it's end of life as a current RED product, it isn't going to happen, and I don't see it happening at all based on any of the current evidence available. It would require a complete inside and out retrofit of the RED ONE and that requires significant R&D, separate components not used in EPIC/SCARLET, separate assembly lines, and other resources that would gain them nothing but expenses. Remember that RED maximizes their profits and sustainability by keeping their costs low.
 
There's been enough back and forth from J&J to figure "who knows" at this point, without a definitive "Yes" or "No". I do agree, and alluded to, your point on the components, etc. It may very well not be cost effective to do this upgrade. Then again, 10,000 R1s in the field. Plus they're still selling Red Ones on RED.com. And Jannard said they'd support R1 "like a queen".

I'm still thrilled at how awesome the pictures look, and how bulletproof the R1 is, today. Anything else is gravy.
 
Jim loves cameras. R1 was his first baby. Even though Red has had two more kids since, R1 was his first. Very special.
 
It's official- no go. One way to look at it is, you have a year where your RMX will remain pretty high-end, until Dragon starts coming to Epic and Scarlet. Another way is, it's still going to make amazing pictures competitive with what's out there in most cases for a good few years at least. I don't know about you guys, but the cost of a 6K pipeline isn't something I could realistically sell to clients or use on a regular basis quite yet, anyway.
 
Yep. It's official. . . and I'm bummed. I was almost certain they'd find a way to upgrade us. But it is what it is. On the upside, we'll have some pretty high-tech boat anchors in a few years.

:-(

Stephen
 
Wow. Bummer. I guess those, stage 2, you'll be sorry if you didn't keep your red one, weren't much to lose. Missed out on the Stage 3 upgrade, due to capital policies at my company. Bummer. No point in MX upgrade for me if it will be outdated in a year. I guess it's just obsolete.
 
I do wonder what Jim was thinking when he said "those who keep their RED Ones will be very glad they did." Well, I suspect a number of us aren't feeling very glad just now.

Stephen
 
Stephen Pruitt said:
I do wonder what Jim was thinking when he said "those who keep their RED Ones will be very glad they did." Well, I suspect a number of us aren't feeling very glad just now.

Stephen
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear of your regret Stephen. It sounds like you misinterpreted those remarks because you missed something. He did also say that Those who are paying attention will not get burned... But I think that was in regard to '12 price increases.

I don't mean to minimize your feelings by making light of them. It's just that there is little left to do about the situation at this point. R1 still kicks ass, and while you can't have made your money back as quickly on the street as you would with the trade in, you did have every opportunity to make R1 pay off up to now. It still rents, doesn't it?
 
We never rent our camera. And we only make our own features.

I don't think Jim's comments were misinterpreted by just me. I think just about everyone did.

Stephen
 
Thomas Koch said:
Wow. Bummer. I guess those, stage 2, you'll be sorry if you didn't keep your red one, weren't much to lose. Missed out on the Stage 3 upgrade, due to capital policies at my company. Bummer. No point in MX upgrade for me if it will be outdated in a year. I guess it's just obsolete.
Click to expand...

Dissappointment = Glass half empty.

But if you want to look at the half-full side, the R-1 is still at the top of its class. It is just in a different class as Epic, and even a notch above Scarlet.

Not trying to be some sort of Jolly-anna here, just offering a different perspective.
 
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