R1 MX - Handheld in a Helicopter - Rolling Shutter Issues

[A. Clint Litton]

Hi All,

Prepping for a shoot in a couple of weeks that calls for shooting a scene in a helicopter. From very preliminary discussions, the director would like to shoot the scene handheld, if possible. Aside from the issues that may arise from an audio standpoint, does anyone know if we will likely experience problems associated with rolling shutter, or will the vibrations from the helicopter be dissipated through the operator's body? A rough camera isn't really an issue, but I'm worried we may end up with some jello...

Unfortunately, we're not in a position to test prior to shooting, so I'm hoping other redusers could weigh in on the matter based on their own experiences with R1 and helicopters.

Thanks in advance!

Clint

 

[Vance Colvig]

I have not had any rolling shutter issues and only shoot with a CF card or SSD.

 

[R Fogg]

Never encountered rolling shutter issues but have used the tyler mini http://www.tylerminigyro.com/ when shooting hh in a helicopter to minimize vibrations.

 

[Shane Kelly]

I've also shot in a heli with the Tyler mini gyro and haven't had any rolling shutter issues. I had to shoot on a red drive after burning through all my cf cards but I found that, as long as you isolated the camera from the heli frame, it was possible to use the drive.( I put the gyro on top of the seat ).I would however recommend ssd drives or a lot of cfs.
I also got a good tip from the inventor of the Tyler gyro at nab. (sorry, can't remember his name) which was to let the pilot put a piece of tape on the window which will give him a reference to what you are trying to shoot. In other words, let the pilot do the work and you hold the camera steady.

 

[sergio arguello]

Im sorry "rolling shutter" issues...Im not understanding why thats even a question. Perhaps due to the vibration a drop frame issue, but ssd or cf or Et drive mount would put that to rest. Please if im missing something enlighten me. Never the Less handheld out of a helicopter seems risky for safety reasons. 1. Lens size? 2.angle of view? if the director starts asking for tilt down stuff your ass is hanging out the door. ask for the right stuff...ie tylermount. wouldnt want to lose you for a 'stock footage shot"

 

[Ted Parkes]

I have shot my fare share of footage from helicopters. Love the Wesmount but not always an option. When shooting hand held I wear a harness and safety tether the camera separate from myself. Prefer to sit on the floor square to the door and feet out on the rail. You can't lean out very fare a foot max, before the buffeting of the wind becomes an issue. Tilting down is limited with the rails. The Red1 is a beast in these situations.. the Epic or better yet the Scarlet would be much easier.

 

[Stephen Pruitt]

A small helicopter with a long lens without a stabilizer is death. (Not literally, of course. That's only happens if the pilot spends too long looking at the LCD!) Shooting on the SSD or CF is pretty much essential with all the vibrations.

Stephen

 

[Richard Foster]

You might try a bungee cord rig from the roof of the helicopter to take the weight of the Red and dampen the vibrations a bit making hand holding a little easier. Also +1 for CF cards or SSD. Be sure you're well strapped in too.

 

[Tobias Straka]

I just shot some scenes without a gyro, worked perfectly. What we did was to hang the RED on a couple of bungee cords (3 points, 2 side, one back) attached to the helicopter's frame. Additionally, we had it secured with some cable ropes. Rolling shutter is not an issue. You may want to up the shutter speed in case you want to do some stabilization, you can always add motion blur in post (we shot at 1/200). Do shoot on CFs or SSDs. Handheld, you can't shoot with a lens too long, I found 50mm to be the max. 80mm can work if you don't have any wind, but really, try to shoot wide with stabilization and cropping in mind. Oh, and prepare yourself to work up there, it'll be a hard workout! Also, you might want to have some anti-travel-sickness-pills if you plan to have the pilot do some crazy stuff, heheh... Here's a couple of pictures:

The rig, attached to the frame. Weight was 32kg - EPIC, where are you?!

The helicopter, a LAMA with the RED ONE MX with Arri Alura 18-80mm:

Framegrab - "Pilatus" in Lucerne, Switzerland:

And another framegrab:

 

[Russ Fill]

Some of these things below seem like they don't relate to rolling shutter but when you can smooth out the camera and you can do your job well then a lot of the tech problems like rolling shutter and having to do radical moves with the camera to get what you need go away or are reduced.
I do a lot of work out of heli's hand held and all the above mentioned suggestions are great but a few things that you might consider is a Cine Saddle to put your self or the camera on to help with stabilation and dampen the vibrations to camera through you. The other is to make sure you where a harness or some kind of safety setup. This will increase your comfort level and help not making contact with the airframe which is were the vibrations are coming from.
Viewfinder over monitor.
I tend to just stand on the skid to get the most ability to pan tilt and this helps to cushion the bumps with my knees. This is not for everyone.
The biggest factor in all of this hasn't been mentioned is the pilot. You are only as good as his ability to take you and point you where you need to go. If your resting the camera on the edge of a window or on the side of the door because what you want to take a picture of is out in front or behind you this will add a lot of vibration to the camera.
I always do a preflight talk about what we are going to do and how we are going to do it. Use a model helicopter to show where the helicopter needs to be for you to take the pictures you need. Take in to consideration all the effects of the conditions on the helicopter as you fly by your subject. What way the wind is coming from will be very important as if it is from behind the heli you will always have a lot of bumps and wobbles. Do a practice run and see what will happen. Than make adjustments.
If you over crank a bit it will also smooth out things. And reduce the possibility of rolling shutter. I sometimes shoot 30 to 40 fps to get that big slow feeling and it smooths out some of the camera shake.
A common mistake made is to just go and start shooting and then get so frustrated you cant communicate what you need with the pilot as to where you need to be to make those pretty pictures. The pilot sees the world differently than you and you need to be patient and know the limitations of the aircraft and what you can do to work around that.
Communication, we work in this industry and still we sometimes fail to do just that on the simplest of terms.
Just a few more things,,, if you have the doors off make sure you don't have anything that can go out them laying around. And make sure if your sitting in the door or on the skids don't have anything that can come off you and get caught in the tail rotor... Sunglasses, cool bandana, gloves in your pocket that is not zipped closed. And don't forget to take a look around and enjoy the view.

 

[Mark Toia]

http://www.zoomfilmtv.com.au/tvcs/ggi_blackbox.html

All hand held.. no bundgy.. no gyros.. youll be fine.
Just get yourself into a comfortable seating position with legs directly out the door (not twisted body). Make sure your feet are on a skid or rail. your are a human tripod now. (with a soft middle), Make sure your camera does not hit the side of the heli when you pan or tilt down. don't shoot tighter than a 35 mm.. 18mm min.. as you will constantly get blades in the shot.
If using a spinning drive.. get a longer lead and put that in a pocket or bag on your person.. Recommend shooting cards.
Don't fight the camera in the wind, just relax and soften your grip. The more you try to make the shot smooth, the worse it gets because your rigid grip and body becomes locked into the heli bounce and vibration... go like jello and chill.
You wont get camera slur or wobble rolling shutter issues like a 5d does.. REDONE MX is far faster refresh. (just like film)

Happy shooting.

 

[A. Clint Litton]

Thank you all for the wonderful advice. The shoot went off without any hitches. Safety was well observed (harnesses, no loose items as we were flying with both doors off a Huey), and we did a mix of shooting handheld and Tyler mini, all to Red Ram SSD drives. As I hadn't shot from a helicopter before, my main concern was whether or not the vibrations from the heli frame would travel through the operator's body enough to cause any kind of rolling shutter artifact, and whether or not shooting using a gyro was absolutely necessary, but everyone's advice was confirmed and it wasn't an issue at all to shoot handheld.

Once again, the forum shows how incredibly helpful this community can be...thank you all for your assistance!

Best,
Clint