R1 HDMI to 1080p LCD TV Stopped Working

[Luis Ortiz]

I took my R1 (B16) to Walmart and tested its HDMI with a Philips 42" LCD TV (Model 42PFL3603D/F7). It worked beautifully. I was able to see both live and recorded footage.

When I brought the TV home, I tried the same test with build 17. The control buttons on the R1 locked up and no signal went to the TV. I reinstalled B16 and still the HDMI didn't work and the controls locked up. I installed B18 and still had the same problem. A reboot of the camera and my R1 works again, but as soon as I connect the HDMI cable, the controls freeze and no signal goes out to the monitor.

I tested the Philips LCD monitor with a PS3 and the same HDMI cable and it worked fine.

Has anyone had this happen to them? If so, how did you resolve this problem?

Thanks.

 

[Mike Dreesman]

Others have reported having the same problem as you when connecting to different HDTVs via HDMI.

I seem to recall someone suggesting that the problem may be that the HDTV is attempting to communicate with the device that it is connected to, in this case the R1, causing the R1 to freeze up. It was also mentioned that it may be possible to turn off this two-way communication via some menu setting.

I wonder if perhaps the floor model was set to "off" but the one you brought home is set to "on".

Good luck,
Mike

 

[Steve Sherrick]

Worked with a Samsung LCD yesterday and had the same problem with HDMI. Locked up the camera in Build 17.

 

[Lexicon]

Some TVs have the ability to turn CEC off but as has been said here, it makes no difference. What we need to know are the following things:

1. Did the setup work before the firmware upgrade? (This allows RED to identify if it is the HDMI chipset itself or something software related inside the camera)

2. What brand of HDMI chipset is in your monitor? (This allows compatibility to be checked against other equipment pairings using the same HDMI chipsets found in your display and the RED)

3. Are there any repeaters or HDMI peripherals between the camera and the display? (Repeaters or devices like A/V receivers have been known to cause serious issues with HDMI connectivity between themselves and display devices when an A/V source is connected via HDMI due to the chipset incompatibility problem and poor handshake sync)

 

[Luis Ortiz]

1. Did the setup work before the firmware upgrade? (This allows RED to identify if it is the HDMI chipset itself or something software related inside the camera)

Yesterday was the first time that I used the HDMI port on my R1 (B16). IT WORKED when I tested it in Walmart.

I purchased the LCD TV and upgraded my R1 to B17. When I connected the LCD to the R1's HDMI port, the controls on the camera froze.

I've tried booting up the camera while already connected to the LCD via HDMI port and it freezes in the middle of booting.

I've tried booting up the camera, then connecting the LCD to it via HDMI and the R1 freezes.

When I boot up the camera while the HDMI cable is connected to it (with no device connected to the other end of the HDMI cable), the camera does not freeze. It only freezes the minute the LCD is connected to the HDMI port.

I contacted Philips and the only thing they suggested was that I upgrade the LCD's software. So I did, and it didn't fix anything. The Philips Tech guy told me that the HDMI on the TV is a 1.3. I don't know if that helps any.

 

[Lexicon]

I would say it is a handshake issue though I'm somewhat unsure as to what exactly in the handshake that could possibly lockup the camera. There are no changes relating to HDMI between 16 and 17, at least nothing that has been put on the release information, so I would hazard a guess that the camera is not properly interpreting the handshake due to some code errata relating to the signal processing that is formatting the signal for HDMI output and locking up. Just for shits and giggles, check if the display has any settings that would be used for 24p content and see if those are on.

 

[Kyle Mallory]

RED: Any chance of making a *serious* effort to fix this? Go borrow a dozen TVs, and troubleshoot this properly, please... It is really annoying.

 

[Lexicon]

If RED can get a list of make and model of the displays that don't work, it would certainly help solve the problem. I'd bet many if not all of the non-working displays in this instance share similar or identical HDMI chipsets.

 

[Luis Ortiz]

Just for shits and giggles, check if the display has any settings that would be used for 24p content and see if those are on.

The display didn't have any settings like that. I exhausted all my options and was unable to figure out the problem. I returned the monitor.

I contacted Red and inquired about this HDMI issue and they've told me that the monitor will need to be video and computer graphics compatible and for this reason some big screens won't work but most computer monitors will.

 

[Blair S. Paulsen]

HDMI likely crippled by HDCP

HDMI likely crippled by HDCP

I have had the same issue. My theory is that the HDCP handshake cannot be properly completed. Despite the fact that virtually any content can be easily ripped via the analog component tap, the studios have managed to propagate copy protection tech that has limited the usefulness of HDMI on displays marketed for TV viewing.

Pretty frakkin' annoying since the better consumer display tech has achieved such a good price/performance ratio in the last couple years. (For the moment we'll ignore the fact that most of the content available to consumers is horribly compromised by the use of MPEG-2 compression rates far more extreme than ever envisioned by the codec engineers). :ranting2:

If I am right about this, RED may not be able to provide much help. Moreover, I am not sure this is a high priority for them with all the other things on their plate. Just sayin'

 

[Lexicon]

I contacted Red and inquired about this HDMI issue and they've told me that the monitor will need to be video and computer graphics compatible and for this reason some big screens won't work but most computer monitors will.

To me, that sounds like they are saying that they have a different video signal output via HDMI than any of the dozens of consumer video cameras that use it. Very odd. Maybe it has something to do with the various frame rates you can shoot with. At the very least it shouldn't be locking up the camera if that's the case. It should simply display strange looking video on the monitor or no signal at all should appear on the monitor.

 

[Stuart English]

HDMI output

HDMI output

We certainly do want to resolve this issue.

Creating a definitive list of displays that cause this lock up will help a lot.

So will any proof that the behavior is changing between camera builds.


The problem is we don't see this behaviour, and until we do its difficult to diagnose the cause.

Meanwhile, if you have this problem, I'd suggest using an HDMI to DVI cable if you can.

That should eliminate any issue arising from handshaking signals (if that is in fact the issue)

 

[Aleksandar Colancevski]

Stuart,
I have PM you about this HDMI lock up problem. In my case HDMI on camera stopped working after using 15 meter 1.3 spec HDMI cable.
Is there any way to hard reset or check if it is alive(and just blocked temporarily) the HDMI port on the camera?
Just to mention that I tried all software reset-reinstall stuff.

 

[AntonyCASAFilms]

If RED can get a list of make and model of the displays that don't work, it would certainly help solve the problem. I'd bet many if not all of the non-working displays in this instance share similar or identical HDMI chipsets.

I couldn't get my Red Build 16 to show anything using HDMI connected to a Panasonic 42" Viera.

Last week I upgraded to Build 17. Yesterday when I tested the HDMI, it worked!
Not sure if the order is relevant:
1. I had the TV on, showing channel HDMI1.
2. I had the Red One off.
3. I connected the HDMI cable between them, then I turned the Red on.

Not perfect yet though... the image is moved 30% to the right, for some reason.

Any ideas?