Quiet Record seems broken in 5228

[Christopher*Seguine]

Adaptive Preview Quiet Record seems broken in 5228? Temp is set to 65, and Speed set to 25% During long takes, temperature will increase and hover at 75 degrees, while fan remains at 18%.When recording stops, fans ramp up until sensor is back to 65 degrees. Even if Temp is set to 55 degrees, fan speed does not ramp to set max speed of 25% during record.It seems to only ramp fan speed to maintain a max of 75 degrees. We just received our Dragon last week, but have tried this on 2 other dragons now and they behave the same. This does not seem to be the way it is intended to work? Should it not be ramping the fan to the set limit to maintain the set temperature?If its allowing the temp to range from 65 to 75 it makes maintaining proper black shading impossible Adaptive mode works as expected, which is what we always used on epic with top fan and old bottom fan, but I'm finding the buzz from the new bottom fan on Dragons too loud in this mode.

 

[Patrick Tresch]

I'm also rolling the original bottom fan for the same reason.

Pat

 

[Jon Carr]

I would contact your rep and send a log file. Your camera might need to be sent back in. I'm running 5.2.28 with adaptive preview quiet record with no issues.

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

Its the same behavior on 3 different cameras, seems unlikely its a camera specific problem. I started the the RMA process and they asked me to compare it to another Dragon which I've done and it behaves the same, so before I ship it back I want to make sure its not a firmware problem.

Your saying on your camera, if you set your fan settings Adaptive Preview Quiet Record, and set the temp to XX and max fan speed to YY% - the camera temp does not exceed XX degrees during record and fan speed ramps to YY%?

I would contact your rep and send a log file. Your camera might need to be sent back in. I'm running 5.2.28 with adaptive preview quiet record with no issues.

 

[Nawaf Alsabhan]

This is how it operates on my dragon, i always assumed it does that because the user would prefer "quiet" mode, but your right, it should raise the fan instead of the temp.

Adaptive Preview Quiet Record seems broken in 5228?

Temp is set to 65, and Speed set to 25%

During long takes, temperature will increase and hover at 75 degrees, while fan remains at 18%.
When recording stops, fans ramp up until sensor is back to 65 degrees.

Even if Temp is set to 55 degrees, fan speed does not ramp to set max speed of 25% during record.
It seems to only ramp fan speed to maintain a max of 75 degrees.

We just received our Dragon last week, but have tried this on 2 other dragons now and they behave the same.

This does not seem to be the way it is intended to work? Should it not be ramping the fan to the set limit to maintain the set temperature?
If its allowing the temp to range from 65 to 75 it makes maintaining proper black shading impossible

Adaptive mode works as expected, which is what we always used on epic with top fan and old bottom fan, but I'm finding the buzz from the new bottom fan on Dragons too loud in this mode.

 

[Anthony Berenato Jr]

I noticed this the other day too. Adaptive Preview Quiet Record, camera black shade at 55, and fan activity was still unheard when the temperature was rising into the high 60s.

I wasn't sure if this setting halted the fans all together while recording, but I assumed it would at least chime in the least bit based on my fan speed settings. A lot of 30 second takes that required a minute of camera cooling afterwards.

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

Support confirmed fan speed in not working properly during record in Adaptive Preview Quiet Record fan mode in 5.2.28.They believe its a firmware bug, hopefully it will be fixed with an update.Probably don't want to use Adaptive Preview Quiet Record until it is fixed, as it allow the camera to get quite hot, 75 degrees.

I'm running 5.2.28 with adaptive preview quiet record with no issues.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

Good call. Having same issues here.

 

[TheBied]

The fan mode is working as intended.

ADAPTIVE PREVIEW QUIET RECORD
Select a maximum bottom fan record speed, and the standby mode fan speed self-adjusts accordingly so thatenough cooling is provided overall. Adaptive Preview Quiet Record mode maintains a lower fan noise level thanAuto mode during recording.


QUIET
The bottom fan self-adjusts to maintain the lowest possible noise level in record and standby mode while stillcooling the DSMC. Using Quiet results in a higher sensor temperature when compared to Auto mode.




Quiet mode is a fully automatic mode. You cannot override it by specifying a maximum fan speed.

If you desire full control over the fans, manual mode is available as an option.

Adaptive Preview Quiet Record seems broken in 5228?

Temp is set to 65, and Speed set to 25%

During long takes, temperature will increase and hover at 75 degrees, while fan remains at 18%.
When recording stops, fans ramp up until sensor is back to 65 degrees.

Even if Temp is set to 55 degrees, fan speed does not ramp to set max speed of 25% during record.
It seems to only ramp fan speed to maintain a max of 75 degrees.

We just received our Dragon last week, but have tried this on 2 other dragons now and they behave the same.

This does not seem to be the way it is intended to work? Should it not be ramping the fan to the set limit to maintain the set temperature?
If its allowing the temp to range from 65 to 75 it makes maintaining proper black shading impossible

Adaptive mode works as expected, which is what we always used on epic with top fan and old bottom fan, but I'm finding the buzz from the new bottom fan on Dragons too loud in this mode.

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

In post 7, I previously abbreviated to Quiet, I meant - Support confirmed fan speed in not working properly during record in Adaptive Preview Quiet Record fan mode in 5.2.28 - edited. In Adaptive Preview Quiet Record fan speed is currently NOT adjusting to the maximum fan % specified during record, and NOT adjusting to the max Temp specified, but always to 75 degrees.This can be verified by creating a custom overlay and add fan speed or use the "Red OverView" preset so that you can monitor fan speed as well as temperatures. Definitely not working as described.

The fan mode is working as intended.

 

[Peter Strietmann]

In view of this does anyone know what a safe operating temperature is? 75 does seem a bit high.

 

[TheBied]

Quiet Mode is designed to run the camera fans at their lowest possible speeds to achieve the lowest noise profile possible. As a result, the camera will also run hotter. It is not unexpected to see the camera reach 75C in this mode. The fans will ramp higher if the temperature continues to rise.

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

Red posted this back in 2012, does not seem to apply any more as fans do not got to 100% at 75, maybe TheBied could give us an update:

>The camera will shut down for temperature reasons. Below is the behavior you should get when reaching high temperatures.
>At 72c the temperature display will turn yellow
>At 74c it turns orange
>At 75c the user speed is overridden and fan goes to max speed. Even if recording.
>At 76c the temp display will turn red. Although max fan speed usually prevents getting there.
>At 77c if you are recording, the record will be stopped
>At 83c the camera will shutdown


Maybe 75 degrees is fine now, the Alexa runs at 95 degrees - but it has an active peltier cooler.

I hope Adaptive Preview Quiet Record gets fixed soon, sounds guys are grumpy enough as it is.

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

Quiet Mode is designed to run the camera fans at their lowest possible speeds to achieve the lowest noise profile possible. As a result, the camera will also run hotter. It is not unexpected to see the camera reach 75C in this mode. The fans will ramp higher if the temperature continues to rise.

Mode: Adaptive Preview Quiet Record is the fan mode that is not functioning properly, not Mode: Quiet.

 

[TheBied]

Mode: Adaptive Preview Quiet Record is the fan mode that is not functioning properly, not Mode: Quiet.

Understood. Adaptive Preview Quiet Record has 2 states.

While not recording, the camera runs the Adaptive fan mode. This will cool the camera to your set temperature after recording completes.
While recording, the camera runs the Quiet fan mode. This will run the fans a slow as possible during recording to keep the camera as quiet as possible.

 

[TheBied]

As of today in 5.2.28, the current thresholds are:

YELLOW = 75c
ORANGE = 77c
RED = 79c
Recording will cut at 80c
Thermal shutdown will occur at 85c

The thresholds were updated when we released the new Adaptive and Quiet fan modes.

Red posted this back in 2012, does not seem to apply any more as fans do not got to 100% at 75, maybe TheBied could give us an update:

>The camera will shut down for temperature reasons. Below is the behavior you should get when reaching high temperatures.
>At 72c the temperature display will turn yellow
>At 74c it turns orange
>At 75c the user speed is overridden and fan goes to max speed. Even if recording.
>At 76c the temp display will turn red. Although max fan speed usually prevents getting there.
>At 77c if you are recording, the record will be stopped
>At 83c the camera will shutdown


Maybe 75 degrees is fine now, the Alexa runs at 95 degrees - but it has an active peltier cooler.

I hope Adaptive Preview Quiet Record gets fixed soon, sounds guys are grumpy enough as it is.

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

OK, so your saying in Adaptive Preview Quiet Record Mode:

The Target Temperature setting, which can be set from 45-75 degrees, is the temperature target during Standby mode? Not Record mode?

The Maximum Record Speed setting, which can be set from 25-100%, still does not seem to function properly, is labeled wrong, or fan speed is reported wrong.
Is this suppose to be Maximum Standby Fan Speed?
In Record mode, if I set it to 25% Maximum Record Speed, it never reaches above 18% fan speed, while temp is at 75 degrees , its not suppose to ramp to the max fan speed you set to try and keep the sensor at the target temp? What is the purpose of the max record speed setting?


and thank you for the updated temp thresholds, very good to know the limits when your shooting out in the desert, etc.

Understood. Adaptive Preview Quiet Record has 2 states.

While not recording, the camera runs the Adaptive fan mode. This will cool the camera to your set temperature after recording completes.
While recording, the camera runs the Quiet fan mode. This will run the fans a slow as possible during recording to keep the camera as quiet as possible.

 

[TheBied]

In Adaptive Preview Quiet Record:

The 'Target Temperature' is solely used in standby.
The 'Maximum Record Speed' is disregarded and only Quiet Mode is executed.

I'll make a note to get this updated in the UI.

OK, so your saying in Adaptive Preview Quiet Record Mode:

The Target Temperature setting, which can be set from 45-75 degrees, is the temperature target during Standby mode? Not Record mode?

The Maximum Record Speed setting, which can be set from 25-100%, still does not seem to function properly, is labeled wrong, or fan speed is reported wrong.
Is this suppose to be Maximum Standby Fan Speed?
In Record mode, if I set it to 25% Maximum Record Speed, it never reaches above 18% fan speed, while temp is at 75 degrees , its not suppose to ramp to the max fan speed you set to try and keep the sensor at the target temp? What is the purpose of the max record speed setting?


and thank you for the updated temp thresholds, very good to know the limits when your shooting out in the desert, etc.

 

[Thomas Winston]

This thread brings up a great point: is the next big RED update going to put this fan noise to rest once and for all?! I'm shooting a feature doc right now and we had to go with the Sony F55 because of fan noise. Our takes are verite and run for hours, same with the in-depth sit-down interviews. I CANNOT stop an interview subject to wait for the camera to cool. That kills the flow of the conversation and severely affects my ability to tell the most compelling story. I admittedly know very little about how the camera works on the inside, but it seems like processors are getting faster with less power requirements. With the tiny GoPro shooting 4K (I know it's no RED, but still), is RED going to update the camera so it simply runs quiet. I want pristine field sound, it is JUST AS IMPORTANT as a good picture. Does this concern RED or do they just want to fitishize image over story?

 

[Christopher*Seguine]

Having the 'Maximum Record Speed' enabled in the menu when it shouldn't be was making it appear not to work properly
and it is listed in the Op guide for this mode "select a maximum bottom fan record speed"

thanks for clearing that up.

During record, quiet mode temp target is 75 degrees?

Yellow range for black shading is +/- 5 degrees?

For long quiet takes, best practice for this mode seem like - black shade at 70, set the Target Temp to be the lowest Yellow Range Temp of your Black Shading temp, 65 , so that Sensor temp stays in the black shade yellow range while recording, 65-75.

In Adaptive Preview Quiet Record:

The 'Target Temperature' is solely used in standby.
The 'Maximum Record Speed' is disregarded and only Quiet Mode is executed.

I'll make a note to get this updated in the UI.