Question for Tim Jones or any other helpful types.

[Shane Betts]

Hi Tim, and anyone else who might have a suggestion.

We recently took delivery of a Quantum Scalar 50 SCSI to hook up to an old G5 edit machine which has been repurposed as a server running OSX Server 10.5.6. The SCSI card is an LSI 1030.

Our VAR insisted we use Atempo but I have found it to be overly complex and a little fragile, with clients dropping off the list and machines unable to install the client. After reading these forums (from prior to Tim's appearance) I thought I'd have a look at Bru Server. So far I'm very impressed.

So, I've run the demo backup to disk (staging) and restored fine. Set backup of the admin machines to staging and all's great. The GUI is clean like Retrospect but it's way faster and seems better thought out. Backup to staging sorted.

However, the tape library is another matter. I keep getting target errors when I try to backup and if I try to scan the destination I get an out of bounds exception and it has to quit. (Better than Atempo, when it has a problem, which just hangs and forces me to restart)

My plan is to run two incrementals on alternative weeks with one off site at any time. We'll append the backup to give us an ongoing backup/archive. I'll then make additional archives of large projects to specific tape sets for producers to keep as their digital neg.

Any ideas where I should look? I'm trying to evaluate this before I go back to the VAR and tell him I want Bru instead of Atempo so I want to be sure this is gonna work before I do that or I'm gonna look stupid.

 

[Tim Jones]

I Suspect the Generic SCSI HBA

I Suspect the Generic SCSI HBA

We recently took delivery of a Quantum Scalar 50 SCSI to hook up to an old G5 edit machine which has been repurposed as a server running OSX Server 10.5.6. The SCSI card is an LSI 1030.

That may be your problem. The OS X support of that generic LSI card is "limited" at best. This is the card that Apple supplied and it's been implemented for disk I/O with very little regard for other device types. We consistently see failures when that SCSI HBA is used.

We strongly urge Mac OS X users to use the ATTO family of HBAs for any system where tape and library support is required - regardless of who's software you use.

Our VAR insisted we use Atempo but I have found it to be overly complex and a little fragile, with clients dropping off the list and machines unable to install the client. After reading these forums (from prior to Tim's appearance) I thought I'd have a look at Bru Server. So far I'm very impressed.

I don't want to shine a negative light on your VAR, but they make a LOT more money if you buy Time Navigator :sarcasm:

So, I've run the demo backup to disk (staging) and restored fine. Set backup of the admin machines to staging and all's great. The GUI is clean like Retrospect but it's way faster and seems better thought out. Backup to staging sorted.

Thank you for your comments.

However, the tape library is another matter. I keep getting target errors when I try to backup and if I try to scan the destination I get an out of bounds exception and it has to quit. (Better than Atempo, when it has a problem, which just hangs and forces me to restart)

Please consider replacing that SCSI HBA with an ATTO ExpressSCSI UL4D. Also, you don't have Time Navigator installed at the same time as BRU Server, right? They are quite like Retrospect in that their daemons grab control of the tape and library devices and refuse to share them. This means that BRU Server can't access the devices when we need to because Time Navigator's daemons have them locked. You'll actually need to completely remove ATN or find their daemons and stop them while BRU Server is in use (we don't lock the devices until we actually use them...)

My plan is to run two incrementals on alternative weeks with one off site at any time. We'll append the backup to give us an ongoing backup/archive. I'll then make additional archives of large projects to specific tape sets for producers to keep as their digital neg.

That is a very workable plan. Plus, any tapes that must be delivered to clients or taken outside of your BRU Server realm can be restored using any version of BRU on any platform, so accessing the data on the archival tapes is pretty easy and doesn't require a full BRU Server installation.

Any ideas where I should look? I'm trying to evaluate this before I go back to the VAR and tell him I want Bru instead of Atempo so I want to be sure this is gonna work before I do that or I'm gonna look stupid.

Again, I don't want to turn this into a BRU support forum, but start with replacing that SCSI HBA and then contacting our support team and you'll be successful with BRU Server and the SCALAR pretty quickly.

Tim

 

[Shane Betts]

Thanks for your reply Tim. Another very strong tick for your company.

Well, for some reason it's working today - frighteningly I have no idea why:clown2: but I have a fair idea why it wasn't (see next point).

We strongly urge Mac OS X users to use the ATTO family of HBAs for any system where tape and library support is required - regardless of who's software you use.

Yes, I couldn't agree more. I've just recently joined this firm and have inherited a facility full of Apple cards:angry01: . I recall from my time at Blackmagic Design the problems caused by these cards and I am working towards migrating the whole facility to ATTOs. I guess the server is now top of the list.

I don't want to shine a negative light on your VAR, but they make a LOT more money if you buy Time Navigator :sarcasm:

Nothing I'm not aware of myself. He's very keen to get into a maintenance contract but he doesn't understand that's why I'm employed here. I'm damn sure he'd make a lot more money from TM - it's so bloody complex it's ridiculous.

Also, you don't have Time Navigator installed at the same time as BRU Server, right?

Yes, I have uninstalled TM. Phew.

That is a very workable plan. Plus, any tapes that must be delivered to clients or taken outside of your BRU Server realm can be restored using any version of BRU on any platform, so accessing the data on the archival tapes is pretty easy and doesn't require a full BRU Server installation.

Good to know. I've run a number of Retrospect backups over the years and this is how I've always worked it.

One further, Bru related question. Aside from Red, we also use HVX and the locked P2 media (which we copy to disk to free up the cards) causes us headaches all the time with copying etc. I noticed on my first backup of Edit 2 that there were a few files with insufficient privileges errors. It's still running but I'm assuming it's those bloody P2's again. Any suggestions on how to overcome these in Bru? Should I give Bru root user privileges to the clients rather than admin level? I know that doesn't help with simple file transfers because the files are locked, so NOBODY gets access, not even root but will it help Bru?

Thanks again. You're a great help.

 

[Tim Jones]

Thanks for your reply Tim. Another very strong tick for your company.

My pleasure.

Well, for some reason it's working today - frighteningly I have no idea why:clown2: but I have a fair idea why it wasn't (see next point).

And that's another example of why we strive so hard to steer users away from the Apple LSI SCSI cards - great for disk, bad for everything else - and very unpredictable. And, I forgot to mention that you almost have to threaten your Apple rep to get one in a new system...

One further, Bru related question. Aside from Red, we also use HVX and the locked P2 media (which we copy to disk to free up the cards) causes us headaches all the time with copying etc. I noticed on my first backup of Edit 2 that there were a few files with insufficient privileges errors. It's still running but I'm assuming it's those bloody P2's again. Any suggestions on how to overcome these in Bru? Should I give Bru root user privileges to the clients rather than admin level? I know that doesn't help with simple file transfers because the files are locked, so NOBODY gets access, not even root but will it help Bru?

I'd be interested in the error that you receive when BRU accesses those files. My suspicion is that the error is related to the resetting of the btime and atime values. If so, you can ignore the warnings (that's why they are warnings) as the file data has been processed. We're working with Apple to get a "backup" API in place that allows backup software to handle even locked files properly.

Thanks again. You're a great help.

You all make it worth while - not just the forum, but what we do as a company .

 

[Shane Betts]

I'd be interested in the error that you receive when BRU accesses those files. My suspicion is that the error is related to the resetting of the btime and atime values. If so, you can ignore the warnings (that's why they are warnings) as the file data has been processed.

I'll have the chance to verify the backup on Monday. I'll get back to you with results, whatever that means.

We're working with Apple to get a "backup" API in place that allows backup software to handle even locked files properly. .

Cool. In the meantime so long as the Quicktimes are backing up it's probably a bit moot. Unlike in an R3D workflow where you want access to camera originals, with P2 the Quicktimes become the default masters.

 

[Tim Jones]

I'll have the chance to verify the backup on Monday. I'll get back to you with results, whatever that means.

Check the job history for the backup operation. Any warnings that occurred will be saved there.

Tim