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Question about Epic-X 5K windowed to 4K...

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CK Olsen

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I was just pondering the idea of shooting 4K on the Epic 5K, and wanted to reach out for confirmation on a couple realizations I had...

First, am I correct that the initial Epic-X 5K Sensor, and the Red One 4K Sensor are for all intensive purposes the same physical dimensions? (s35?)

If so, since shooting at reduced resolution (3K or 2K) on the Red One's 4K sensor windows the sensor, resulting in smaller image sizes with a reduced field of view from any given lens, and thusly resulting in a "multiplied" focal length for that lens (ex. shooting 2K windowed on a 4K red One with an RPP 50mm would result in framing closer to that of a 100mm focal length lens...)

Then with the Epic, if I planned to shoot 4K on the 5K sensor, it would also be windowed, correct?

And therefore, if I shot Red One @ 4K, side by side with Epic-X @ 4K, both with the same lens ( let's again say the RPP 50mm), then the Epic's 4K image would also have a comparitively reduced field of view, correct?

If this IS the case, what would be the theoretical effect upon the Epic-X at 4K's lens length be?

My assumption is that Epic 5K windowed to 4K would "multiply" the lens focal length by approx 25%, so a RPP 50mm would result in framing closer to that of a 62.5mm lens... am I on the right track here?

Thanks in advance for your assistance,
-CK
 
The RED One and Epic both use the same Mysterium-X sensor. The original Mysterium also has the same pixel size (5.4 microns), so resolutions in relation to size are identical on the original Mysterium chip as compared to MX.

When you shoot different resolutions on the Epic, it windows the sensor, just as on the RED One. It does not scale RAW. Shooting 16:9 on the Epic, 4.5K, 4K, 3K, etc.. Window down, just as shooting 4K, 3K, et.. on the RED One will window down from the largest 4.5K area. Largest recordable area on Epic is 5120x2700. Largest 16:9 area on Epic is 4800x2700. If you shoot 4K on the Epic, or 4096 pixels wide, it will be the same sized sensor area as on the RED One because the pixel dimensions are the same. 4K is 22.12mm wide on these cameras, a bit smaller than S35 -- closer to 4K Academy.

An Epic shooting 5K would have a wider AOV than shooting 4K on a RED One (or Epic). If you want to put numbers to it, 5K (5120 pixels) is 27.648mm wide. That is very close to APS-H format in DSLR terms -- similar to the Canon 1D series. Of course, the frame is not as tall. On the Epic, the recordable area maximum is 1.89:1 aspect.

If you use your 50mm lens as a reference. When shooting 5K with a 50mm lens, you would have an Angle Of View (AOV) of 30.91 degrees. If you shoot 4K on the Epic or on the RED One, the width of that frame is 22.12mm and with that 50mm lens, you would have an AOV of 24.95 degrees. So a difference of about 6 degrees within your view. Or to relate it in terms of sensor crop, there's a 1.25X crop factor from 5K to 4K. (27.648 / 1.25 ~ 22.118) -- or 5120 / 1.25 = 4096. Funny how that works, eh? ;)

Framing with lenses is all relative to imager (sensor) sizes. Any given focal length will give a wider AOV as the sensor size increases. If you are shooting 5K on one camera with a 50mm lens (30.91 AOV) and you want to duplicate that same AOV on a camera shooting 4K, you would need a 40mm lens.
 
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Pretty sure the Epic sensor is bigger than the RED One sensor.
 
two more quick questions

two more quick questions

Jeff Kilgroe said:
The RED One and Epic both use the same Mysterium-X sensor. The original Mysterium also has the same pixel size (5.4 microns), so resolutions in relation to size are identical on the original Mysterium chip as compared to MX.

When you shoot different resolutions on the Epic, it windows the sensor, just as on the RED One. It does not scale RAW. Shooting 16:9 on the Epic, 4.5K, 4K, 3K, etc.. Window down, just as shooting 4K, 3K, et.. on the RED One will window down from the largest 4.5K area. Largest recordable area on Epic is 5120x2700. Largest 16:9 area on Epic is 4800x2700. If you shoot 4K on the Epic, or 4096 pixels wide, it will be the same sized sensor area as on the RED One because the pixel dimensions are the same. 4K is 22.12mm wide on these cameras, a bit smaller than S35 -- closer to 4K Academy.

An Epic shooting 5K would have a wider AOV than shooting 4K on a RED One (or Epic). If you want to put numbers to it, 5K (5120 pixels) is 27.648mm wide. That is very close to APS-H format in DSLR terms -- similar to the Canon 1D series. Of course, the frame is not as tall. On the Epic, the recordable area maximum is 1.89:1 aspect.

If you use your 50mm lens as a reference. When shooting 5K with a 50mm lens, you would have an Angle Of View (AOV) of 30.91 degrees. If you shoot 4K on the Epic or on the RED One, the width of that frame is 22.12mm and with that 50mm lens, you would have an AOV of 24.95 degrees. So a difference of about 6 degrees within your view. Or to relate it in terms of sensor crop, there's a 1.25X crop factor from 5K to 4K. (27.648 / 1.25 ~ 22.118) -- or 5120 / 1.25 = 4096. Funny how that works, eh? ;)

Framing with lenses is all relative to imager (sensor) sizes. Any given focal length will give a wider AOV as the sensor size increases. If you are shooting 5K on one camera with a 50mm lens (30.91 AOV) and you want to duplicate that same AOV on a camera shooting 4K, you would need a 40mm lens.
Click to expand...

Jeff-
thanks so much for the info!
I do have two more questions:

Question #1 - Since the MX sensor is the same in both EPIC and MX'ed RED Ones, then are MX'ed Reds just hardwire windowed to a max res of 4.5K?

Question #2 - I know that the MX sensor has more resolution, but is the Mysterium-X sensor also physically larger than the original Mysterium?

Again, thanks in advance,
CK
 
CK Olsen said:
Question #1 - Since the MX sensor is the same in both EPIC and MX'ed RED Ones, then are MX'ed Reds just hardwire windowed to a max res of 4.5K?
Click to expand...

Yes. Other existing internal components and bandwidth inside the RED One keep it limited to a maximum of 4.5K width. But yes, it is the same sensor that is in the Epic-X/S35 and Scarlet S35.

Question #2 - I know that the MX sensor has more resolution, but is the Mysterium-X sensor also physically larger than the original Mysterium?
Click to expand...

Mysterium-X is physically larger. It has to be in order to accommodate the higher resolution. After all, both the original Mysterium and Mysterium-X sensors have the same size photosites (pixels). They are 5.4um (0.0054mm square).

Original Mysterium's active area is 4520x2540 (24.4x13.7mm) and due to the processing and bandwidth abilities of the RED One, the maximum recording size is smaller. 4096x2304 is about it. We can get 4.5K (or really close to it) for recordable width, but must sacrifice the height of the frame to do it.

Mysterium-X is 30x15mm and we have not been told the full active area, which will account for look-around purposes. The maximum recordable area is 5120x2700 (27.65x14.58mm). Which the Epic-X/S35 and Scarlet S35 will support. When the M-X sensor is used in the RED One, it is restricted to the windowed sensor areas that the RED One supports, even though the sensor itself can handle more.
 
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