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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Quanum SDLT 600A

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Peter Richardson

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So I think I'm going to buy one of these. I'd like to wait till I get my Red to see what's available, but I'm so sick of burning DL DVD's for my HVX ftg I'm going to pull the trigger now. I have found one for $6k. Before I lay down the cash, does anyone suggest an alternative storage medium? I've done a lot of reading on the boards, and I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but just thought I'd check before I lay down the cash. Thanks!

Peter

PS I'm planning to connect it to my MBPro via GigE which, according to an engineer at Quantum, is no problem.
 
Personally I think the SDLT 600A is a joke. You can buy that exact same unit with only an U160 SCSI interface (no Gig E) for 1/3 the price. Not only that, but DLTS4 and LTO-3 drives are available with higher capacities than 300GB. So unless you absolutely, positively have to have gigabit ethernet, then don't do it. If you still want gig-E interface to a tape drive, I would recommend s small form-factor PC, install a tape drive internally to it.

But when the Ultra160 SCSI model of the exact same drive can be had from most online vendors for $2400 while Quantum retails the version with Gig-E for $9K there's something wrong. I've seen it a few places in the $6K range, but still had to respond with a "WTF?". For $6K I can buy a 24-tape LTO3 (400GB per tape uncompressed) autoloader system and still have enough left over to go out for a nice dinner... twice.

The 600a is a compact desktop drive unit. Reason dictates that you will have it siting on a desk near one of your computers. Save yourself the money and buy the SCSI version. Or try to hold out a bit longer - closer to the end of this year. Tape drive manufacturers are all about to release their next gen systems and many will have gig-e and eSATA interfaces. If you only have the Macbook Pro to connect to it, I would still recommend the SCSI model. Because with the money you save, you could buy a nice PC or a Mac Pro w/ SCSI controller and have another workstation system that also handles the tape drive.
 
Thanks Jeff! Very helpful info. Instead of buying a dedicated PC, could I just buy an Express Card/SCSI adapter so I could plug the tape drive into my MBPro?

Peter
 
In the mean time you can get a swapable SATA enclosure from Wiebetech that lets you use bare HDDs over a firewire 800/USB2 or ESATA connection.
You can just swap the drives as you fill them up. This almost gives you the price performance of a tape system for temporary storage until you find what's right for you.
http://www.wiebetech.com/products/RTX100.php
 
Peter Richardson said:
Thanks Jeff! Very helpful info. Instead of buying a dedicated PC, could I just buy an Express Card/SCSI adapter so I could plug the tape drive into my MBPro?
Click to expand...

You've probably read my posts about this - There's no direct ExpressCard to SCSI adapter - but there is the ExpressCard to PCIe adapter for $700 which would work with a $500 PCIe SCSI card, bringing your total to $1,200 - + the cost of your SCSI tape drive.

I'm most likely going the route of a small form factor PC that I can stick an internal tape drive into and network to my MB Pro...
 
Cinewalt said:
You've probably read my posts about this - There's no direct ExpressCard to SCSI adapter - but there is the ExpressCard to PCIe adapter for $700 which would work with a $500 PCIe SCSI card, bringing your total to $1,200 - + the cost of your SCSI tape drive.
Click to expand...

Well, there are ExpressCard to SCSI adapters, but as of right now all are Fast SCSI-II. Which doesn't help with these tape units. None of the current crop of tape systems on the market, that I'm aware of, are backward compatible to anything less than Ultra SCSI @ 80MB/s.

There are also PCI-e U-SCSI adapters on the market for less than $500. This wouldn't be a very elegant solution either and no more cost-effective than using a SFF PC.

I'm most likely going the route of a small form factor PC that I can stick an internal tape drive into and network to my MB Pro...
Click to expand...

That's still my recommendation if you want it to be somewhat compact and portable (or should I say, luggable?).

Another option to seriously consider is hard drive backup. Personally, I'm not a big fan of just dumping data to HDDs and shelving them, or at least not without some form of fault-tolerance built into the backup plan. Take a look at drobo -- www.drobo.com

It's an automatically managed fault-tolerant RAID system. If you equip it with 4X 500GB drives (about $115 each these days), that gives you 1.4TB of redundant storage. Fill those 4 drives, then swap them out for new ones.

I have been a tape advocate and in some ways I still am. But in reality, you have to fill a LOT of hard drives before the potential cost savings of tape kicks in. And while tape is probably the most reliable form of backup, I would say that fault-tolerant HDD sets are just as good.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Take a look at drobo -- www.drobo.com
It's an automatically managed fault-tolerant RAID system. If you equip it with 4X 500GB drives (about $115 each these days), that gives you 1.4TB of redundant storage. Fill those 4 drives, then swap them out for new ones.
Click to expand...

That thing looks awesome - but it's still just USB.
 
Cinewalt said:
That thing looks awesome - but it's still just USB.
Click to expand...

I am not sure why everyone is so hung up over the fact that the drobo is only USB 2.0?

When cloning off of a RED DRIVE, you are at the mercy of the Red Drive's read speed and I am pretty damn sure that you will not get any more speed via eSata.

And to honest, I like having my FW800 open on my Powerbook - for cloning to another drive, or just downloading a RED DRIVE.

Drobo is the best low-cost, versatile solution I have seen to date.
 
Quantum drive.

Quantum drive.

Peter Richardson said:
So I think I'm going to buy one of these. I'd like to wait till I get my Red to see what's available, but I'm so sick of burning DL DVD's for my HVX ftg I'm going to pull the trigger now. I have found one for $6k. Before I lay down the cash, does anyone suggest an alternative storage medium? I've done a lot of reading on the boards, and I know this topic has been discussed ad nauseum, but just thought I'd check before I lay down the cash. Thanks!

Peter

PS I'm planning to connect it to my MBPro via GigE which, according to an engineer at Quantum, is no problem.
Click to expand...

If you are going to go that path, you might want to purchase Quantum's LTO-3 series A model instead. Its the same form factor, the same network interface, just a 400GB LTO-3 tape cartridge instead of the SDLT.
 
Thanks for all the great advice guys. I am pretty set on going with tape because I'll need redundant off site backup and tape seems to be the most elegant solution. I like the idea of Ethernet because it leaves the expresscard slot open for my hard drive storage -- most likely fibre channel raid. Are there better, or will there soon be, cheaper options than the quantum? It seems like lto might be a better option than dlt as well.

Peter

Ps happiness is surfing and posting to reduser on your iPhone
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Or try to hold out a bit longer - closer to the end of this year. Tape drive manufacturers are all about to release their next gen systems and many will have gig-e and eSATA interfaces. If you only have the Macbook Pro to connect to it, I would still recommend the SCSI model. Because with the money you save, you could buy a nice PC or a Mac Pro w/ SCSI controller and have another workstation system that also handles the tape drive.
Click to expand...

THIS is good wisdom, couldn't have said it better myself.

The 600a LTO3 has caught my eye - I'd love to have one - but I am NOT getting that "bang for the buck" feeling that I like so much -

When in doubt ... wait ... wait ... drives raided on a drobo ... drives raided on a drobo ...
 
The 4-drive unit from drobo is just the first, I'm sure they'll have more products to come. Anyway, I've ordered one and hope it will be here next week so I can play with it. :) Worst-case scenario, it's an interim solution that's compact, easy to work with and should provide a good level of reliability.
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
The 4-drive unit from drobo is just the first, I'm sure they'll have more products to come. Anyway, I've ordered one and hope it will be here next week so I can play with it. :) Worst-case scenario, it's an interim solution that's compact, easy to work with and should provide a good level of reliability.
Click to expand...

Great minds think alike. And you can roll with only 2 or 3 drives in the drobo and then just add -

FYI - 3D Magazine just battle-tested internal SATA drives and their TOP PICK was - Hitachi Deskstar 7K1000 - 1T drive that is running around $410 - but yeah, I like 500G's for $110 - nice to know you can buy 3, start off with just under 1.5T and then ADD a 1T drive later for $400
 
I agree...this lil drobo looks like the right "bang for the buck", and who doesn't want a robot raid to do the work for you, we live in an iphone age after all. With Disk size these days I could use a RObo to back up my current Sata raid Zero which is only 1.4T. At that price I would even get one for my wife and to back up all our shared data, itunes library, photo libraries etc.

I Seriously considered Quantum's SDLT 600a Peter, its a good system and will work well for you but as usual it pays to wait and I feel many are playing the waiting game until they get closer to RED launch.

Best of luck
 
Haskell said:
I agree...this lil drobo looks like the right "bang for the buck", and who doesn't want a robot raid to do the work for you, we live in an iphone age after all.
Click to expand...

That's one of the biggest things with drobo. And As they release larger products, the "robot" or automation factor is going to be huge. It's managed RAID for dummies -- I love it. With the price, I can put one on each workstation for localized backup and project storage.

zeke said:
Over at their forum, the single biggest issue is excessive heat.
Click to expand...

I've seen some of those comments... It seems a lot has to do with the drives chosen. Some of the really hot-running 10krpm drives look like a bad idea inside drobo. I think for backup purposes, 4x500GB would give the most reliable and cost-effective drive configuration with drobo. 1TB drives ($399 @ newegg) may also be worth a look because you'll be storing fewer drives in the long run and that may be worth a price premium. It depends on how fast you fill them up, I suppose. The 750GB are a happy medium in there.

I plan to bring a drobo to the LA REDTest to test it in a RED workflow and that's probably how I'll be shuttling a lot of stuff around and how I'll bring outside contributions (3D models, background plates, skies, etc..). A drobo hooked to a notebook computer could make a convenient and ideal field backup device. 4x500GB in a drobo, even with it's redundant data features is enough to store the contents of 4 RED DRIVES plus a handful of clips shot to CF cards.
 
jumping back to the original question of the 600A - I like Stuart's point about getting the LTO-3 version of it. BUT - something everybody is missing - the REASON why it is so expensive is that it does MXF wrapping so you can access clips BY TIMECODE, and even SUBCLIPS - got an hour long take from a documentary interview and just need a 20 second shot of it? In any traditional backup system, you'd have to recover the whole hour. With the "A" series Quantum drives, it is possible to retrieve just the in/out with handles you want - a MAJOR feature. Now, if you're just doing data backup, that isn't the same problem. The "A" series do add a very useful feature.

Oh - and you can access it from ANY MACHINE ON THE NETWORK. In my 6 Mac home/shop, that is NICE. I don't want to have to deal with SCSI on all machines, or tying up two machines to do a backup, etc.

But for straight data backup, Drobo or eSATA drive docks are pretty cost effective (or FireWire drive docks or FireWire drives for that matter).

As for Drobo speed - keep in mind the historically sucky performance of USB 2.0 on Macs - consider this article:

http://www.barefeats.com/usb2.html

which points out that USB 2.0 is slower than FireWire 400 on Macs. Ah, but that's dated, here's a better one testing MacBook Pros:

http://www.barefeats.com/hard69.html

You get anywhere from 11 to 20 MB/sec on USB 2.0 in their tests, depending on what you plug it into. FW400 and FW800 are MUCH faster.

Twin eSATA laptop drives in Red RAID should deliver no less than 35 and no more than 90 MB/sec depending on drives used (I dunno which), and where the data is coming from on the drives (distance from spindle - full vs empty). So no matter what, I'll betcha a beer Red RAID will be pushing data faster than most laptop drives, all USB 2.0 interfaced devices, and some single eSATA drives when attached to a MacBook Pro.

My $0.02.

-mike
 
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