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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Quantel Pablo, Scratch or just wait until Nab?

Thanks guys, every single word of this thread is a big help....
 
SpeedGrade

SpeedGrade

Hi Corrado,

please contact Patrick 'at' iridas.com for a demo of SpeedGrade. If you are looking into serious stereo work, we have a very comprehensive toolset. This includes automatic stereo conform, grading on both eyes or individual eyes, correcting for offset, rotation and temporal offsets between eyes. We also support virtually all stereo display technologies out there.

SpeedGrade 2009 supports RED files natively without transcoding. To get around the performance bottlenecks with reading REDCode, we have a feature called Dynamic Resolution, which switches to proxy resolution for playback and returns to full resolution on pause.

http://www.iridasmagazine.com/2009/02/02/iridas-betas-dynamic-resolution-feature/

SpeedGrade is not a compositor though. It does have some simple compositing features, but nothing sophisticated enough to come close to a node-based compositor. In my opinion, the best way to work is to combine it with a stand alone non-real time compositor such as The Foundry's NUKE. They have very powerful stereo plug-ins (Ocula) that compliment what SpeedGrade has to offer.

In my opinion a combination of NUKE and SpeedGrade will give you much more functionality than a Quantel system for a smaller price.

I see that you are located in Italy - IRIDAS HQ is in Munich, not so far away. We actually just sold a SpeedGrade to an Italian customer for stereo work.

Lin
 
Hi there, ciao Corrado.

We use Pablo, and we tried Scratch in the past with mixed results.

1) first and foremost: ain't the sword it is the samurai. no matter which system you have it is the ability to make that hardware/software work as it best that make the difference. The operator IS the key: I was in a demo with nucoda a while ago and even if the software/hardware is decent the operator in the demo was the worst possible and fail miserably all the questions asked... We never consider to buy one of their machines. Same for Luster ( that I like a lot ) when we were at the Discreet base for a demo that was less than impressive and I know the machine can do it it is just the driver was not up to the task.

2) said that, I like the Pablo workflow. I'm able to load/conform/edit/dustbust/color/do the 3D convergence/make DCI complain files/paint/title/all the video delivery/unse and apply LUTs/make compositing up to a certain level.

3) I was testing the capability of the machine two days ago and i was able to play TWO streams of red files in stereo mode both at 4K-10bits-log: even if it is not a feature that quantel support the hardware it still able to perform that. all the other resolutions below that are handled graciously.

4) compositing it is NOT the strongest point. We felt that flame, AE, Fusion with a beefy machine can help and integrate the compositing part.

5) w/pablo I strongly suggest the 5 MRE ( render engines ): when you do not have it you do not know, when you try it you don't know how you did without it...

6) we have 60+ title done and 10 3D projects done ( some at 4K ) and clients are happy of the workflow and the speed/interactivity of the platform.

7) the system it is scalable: later on you can add platforms to your pool and share work for improved productivity.

Feel free to ask any question you like.

Walter
wvolpatto@fotokem.com

BTW, hi Steve, Hi Lucas....

w.
 
Hey Walter!

Glad to see you here...

For the rest of you reading this thread, Walter is being modest here, but he is the lead DI Colorist at Fotokem. He has a ton of experience as a professional, in-the-chair Colorist and has done an awful lot of titles. He is a wealth of information and experience. Anybody who wants to know what Pablo is and is not capable of couldn't ask for a better source. Except maybe for Steve, of course. ; )

Lucas
 
luki said:
Hey Walter!

Glad to see you here...

For the rest of you reading this thread, Walter is being modest here, but he is the lead DI Colorist at Fotokem.
Lucas
Click to expand...

Please, as I say all the times:

I'm not a colorist, I just keep touching my balls until someone says "I like it!!!!"
 
walter.volpatto said:
Hi there, ciao Corrado.

The operator IS the key: I was in a demo with nucoda a while ago and even if the software/hardware is decent the operator in the demo was the worst possible and fail miserably all the questions asked... We never consider to buy one of their machines. Same for Luster ( that I like a lot ) when we were at the Discreet base for a demo that was less than impressive and I know the machine can do it it is just the driver was not up to the task.
Click to expand...

Walter, it's interesting that you would say this because while I somewhat agree, I can also look at it from the point of view of the manufacturer - and the fact is that the best colorists, the ones who are the most knowledgeable and capable, as well as the most talented, are nearly all working for facilities (or for themselves) - not for manufacturers. With the notable exception of Kevin Shaw and his relationship with Digital Vision, the companies don't usually employ the industry's leading colorists, primarily because they can't. One of the frustrations of being a working colorist with a rather deep understanding of the tools and a personal set of working methods is that one tends to project that level of expertise on any demo artist, expecting them to know what you know and have your understanding of the process. But the fact is that unless you are sitting in the chair every day, you just don't have that level of understanding - and if you're working for a manufacturer, you're not sitting in the chair with clients every day. When I ask for demos of color correction equipment, I try to let the demo artist show me what he or she needs to show me, then I ask specific questions and try to not intimidate them. But the truth is that I know I sometimes do intimidate them, for just the reasons I've mentioned. And whether you think about it this way or not, you and Paul can be pretty intimidating as well. So I think the expectations need to be reasonable when demos are presented, because unless a Kevin Shaw is doing the demo, the chances are pretty good that the demo artist is not at the level that you are.

Just another way of looking at it.
 
Both is good

Both is good

We have both Pablo 4k and Scratch.

Scratch is the go to box for getting rushes out, grading and conforming R3D. We also use it for grading 2K dpx rushes off the scanner.

Pablo is the finishing box. We import the final conform with handles and do the hero grade along with fixes, compositing and all the other tools Walter mentioned. It is fast, interactive and very reliable compared with its peers.

Depending on your specific workflow you really need to decide on which tools are the essentials and choose from there. If money is truly no object just get both! They work well together.

Michael
 
walter.volpatto said:
Please, as I say all the times:

I'm not a colorist, I just keep touching my balls until someone says "I like it!!!!"
Click to expand...

:wink: Aaaahhh LOL!

Walter (are you Italian, in some way?) thanks to be here, your words are arrived at destination.

Lin, I will contact Patrick as soon as I can, especially if the actual deals (Pablo on one side / Scratch on the other) failed to reach a good agreement. :sarcasm:

Luki, unfortunately I wasn't able (via the Italian reseller) to organize a new Scratch demo (until next month) do you have any suggestion?

Michael: unfortunately, I have a budget limit... :unsure:
 
Elcurado said:
:wink: Aaaahhh LOL!

Walter (are you Italian, in some way?) thanks to be here, your words are arrived at destination.
Click to expand...

Yep, born in Turin, :cold: worked in Rome for 4 years :w00t: and then moved in LA five years ago...

Where is your shop based?

to: MMOST

I've been in the Demo seat a while ago and because i did not know what the client want that demo was not the most brilliant ever.
I'm fully agree that sometimes we colorist are intimidating on a demo: the same apply to me when a new director or DoP came in my room, you never know what the expectations are going to be.
I was also doing live broadcast for tv in Italy and that it is one of the hotter seat you can sit: no errors allowed...

In relation of that demo day, I cannot tell if the guy that was driving the Nucoda box was not an expert or it was not a demo artist at all: my point it is to explain that may be the box it is fantastic and powerful but that demo did not deliver the message to my boss therefore a chance to sell a platform vanish for them. True for any platform.

My point about the operators quality it is not platform to platform, but in the same platform: we have currently 5 Pablos and 1 Iq and 8 operators between senior and junior and nobody has the same performance giving that they have the same twin configuration.
If you grab me and put me in front of a Baselight or Lustre, probably i can make something out of it but it will take days to catch up with the speed and the nuance of the box (being basically a Quantel operator).

Scratch it is a good box but we do not have an operator that can make that machine fly... so I will LIE if I say that the box is not performing i prefer to say that we do not have an operator therefore we do not use the box.

My seguent point it is slightly different: can you do 3D DI with a Mac, FCP, Shake and Color?

Yes you can. Giving enough time you can do it.

Do you want to do it? Certainly I don't...:construction:

So, it is a difficult balance between the money you toss and the performance you get in return.

Just to give you food for though, Slumdog millionaire has been done in a old quantel with Qcolor... could have done in a Nucoda or a Scratch and still be a great movie, regardless.

If you ask me which is my ideal configuration, I'm totally biased but I'll use:

-Quantel pablo ( full loaded ) for finishing
-Iq in shared configuration for load/conform/video delivery and support edit
-FCP for all the offline edit, most of the dailies and such ( note to all, Steve Shaw has a software that can make 3D LUTs for FCP to make dailies that have Film Luts burn-in.... so you can have your Qt out of the red files and give the look you want in Log form than Burn in the LUT in FCP with timecode and all the info for the edit )
-Flame for the extra Vfx that Iq/Pablo cannot handle.
-Truelight for the Video to Film print emulation - I have, I like it and even if it not the most powerful toy around it does the job... After a LUT it is generated, transfer in Pablo/Iq/FCP/Flame so anyone has the same calibrated viewing environment.
-Any good DI DLP projector ( we use NEC800 but any that can do a good job it is welcome )

And

4 great operators ( con i controcoglioni ) to put behind the consoles....

2 cents...

Walter
 
Edgar Pitts said:
There are obviously some real DI heavyweights posting on this thread. Does anyone have some impressions of Lustre they would like to share? Many thanks.
Click to expand...

Hi there.

For what I saw and I know Lustre it is a great color corrector. No question asked.

the main problem is that it is mainly ONLY a color corrector: you need another machine to support it and shared disks and so forth...

For big facilities i see the advantage to break down the deal in compartment: edit, color, video and use dedicated platforms for each tasks.
For a smaller facilities a platform that can do more in one it is a better way to go. Clients here sometimes complain that Pablo it is not really realtimes but then love the flexibility to edit/paint/change formats/and do some compositing without leave the room: for Trailers and advertisement it is absolutely a killer.
I think that scratch or Nucoda in the right hands can be a killer as well...

For the Discreet or the Resolve you already need two platforms, two operators, things that doesn't cooperate well with that kind of flexibility.

Having the smallest amount of pen pressing to achieve the job it is part of selling your room better that your competitors and I think Quantel does a good job at it.

Walter
 
Edgar Pitts said:
There are obviously some real DI heavyweights posting on this thread. Does anyone have some impressions of Lustre they would like to share? Many thanks.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, I don't do impressions. My specialty is Post Production.

But seriously.....

All the devices mentioned here can do anything in the way of color correction that anyone could want to do. Some are strictly color devices (Lustre would be in this category), some are data management/playback/conforming systems with color capabilities (Scratch), some are full scale editing and compositing systems with color capabilities (Pablo). All are at seriously different price points. All are aimed at different audiences. What one needs depends on what one intends to do, the environment intended for its use (i.e., small room or workspace, large room, theater, client friendly or artist friendly, etc.), the person who's going to use it (i.e., colorist, generalist, VFX artist, etc.), and budget. Any attempt to directly compare them 1:1 is a futile exercise because they are very different devices.
 
walter.volpatto said:
Yep, born in Turin, :cold: worked in Rome for 4 years :w00t: and then moved in LA five years ago...

Where is your shop based?

Walter
Click to expand...

Genova, Liguria, parliamone...



mmost said:
But seriously.....
Any attempt to directly compare them 1:1 is a futile exercise because they are very different devices.
Click to expand...

Mmost, please believe me, I have a valid reason in order to ignite this thread. And all the post (yours included) are really a big help for me - I need to understand the difference, not just "know".

Thanks again,
Corrado.
 
walter.volpatto said:
-Quantel pablo ( full loaded ) for finishing
-Iq in shared configuration for load/conform/video delivery and support edit
-FCP for all the offline edit, most of the dailies and such ( note to all, Steve Shaw has a software that can make 3D LUTs for FCP to make dailies that have Film Luts burn-in.... so you can have your Qt out of the red files and give the look you want in Log form than Burn in the LUT in FCP with timecode and all the info for the edit )
-Flame for the extra Vfx that Iq/Pablo cannot handle.
-Truelight for the Video to Film print emulation - I have, I like it and even if it not the most powerful toy around it does the job... After a LUT it is generated, transfer in Pablo/Iq/FCP/Flame so anyone has the same calibrated viewing environment.
-Any good DI DLP projector ( we use NEC800 but any that can do a good job it is welcome )

And

4 great operators ( con i controcoglioni ) to put behind the consoles....

2 cents...
Click to expand...

I'd say all of the things on that list are a lot more than 2 cents. More like 100 million cents (that's $1 million, although with all of the pieces to connect the list of equipment you gave, plus a few rooms including a theater to house it, you're probably at more like $1.5 - 2 million). And that's without the 4 great operators.

When budgets are at the level of FotoKem's, you can have all of those toys. And yes, there are certainly many efficiencies that result. And your points about 3D work and Pablo's affinity for it are certainly justified. In today's world, however, those kind of rooms are pretty tough to justify, particularly once you leave the major film centers like Los Angeles, London, New York, and possibly Vancouver and Toronto that can generate enough high end work to keep those rooms fed. And, once again, outside of those centers - as a matter of fact, outside of L.A. - 3D work is not only hard to come by, it's non-existent.
 
walter.volpatto said:
the main problem is that it is mainly ONLY a color corrector: you need another machine to support it and shared disks and so forth...

For big facilities i see the advantage to break down the deal in compartment: edit, color, video and use dedicated platforms for each tasks.
For a smaller facilities a platform that can do more in one it is a better way to go. Clients here sometimes complain that Pablo it is not really realtimes but then love the flexibility to edit/paint/change formats/and do some compositing without leave the room: for Trailers and advertisement it is absolutely a killer.
I think that scratch or Nucoda in the right hands can be a killer as well...

For the Discreet or the Resolve you already need two platforms, two operators, things that doesn't cooperate well with that kind of flexibility.

Having the smallest amount of pen pressing to achieve the job it is part of selling your room better that your competitors and I think Quantel does a good job at it.
Click to expand...

Agree 100%.

(and only a true Quantel person would use the term "pen pressing" :wink: )
 
mmost said:
I'd say all of the things on that list are a lot more than 2 cents. More like 100 million cents (that's $1 million, although with all of the pieces to connect the list of equipment you gave, plus a few rooms including a theater to house it, you're probably at more like $1.5 - 2 million). And that's without the 4 great operators.

When budgets are at the level of FotoKem's, you can have all of those toys.
Click to expand...

Yes and no...

We started 6 years ago with 1 Iq, minimum configuration and one big monitor. When slowly we show that we could do the job and the quality was what the client wants we add pieces:
-DI projector ( first edition )
- a second iQ
- upgrade one iQ to a pablo
- a second Pablo
- a second DI room ( previously we where rotatihg the two pablo in one room )
- a shared environment

and so on, it took 6 years to have all the equipment that we have now and we build that with the money we where getting out of the jobs we where doing.

that was my IDEAL configuration. Remember you can still do a DI with FCP and Color and I'm not suggesting that anybody should have a full 10Mil$ loaded room ready to go in one month.

w.
 
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