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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pushing the limits of Slo Mo?

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Michael Chase Gordon

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Whats the best Slo Mo you can get from the Red One with the MX sensor? I would like to know if anyone has shot 120 FPS and changed it in post to push the limits without it looking cheesy. Any videos examples or links would be great as well. I love the look that the phantom camera gives you but I wonder if you can come close with the Red One and the shot slowed down in post?
 
By `push the limits` i assume you mean create greater than 120fps in post? Well the most extreme example i`ve seen of this that still looks pretty ok is here.. http://vimeo.com/13557939 a pretty fluid looking 1000fps using Twixtor i believe.Apologies in advance that it`s not MX sensor based(it`s from a camera i`ve not heard of),but here the point is to give you an example of how far frame rates can be pushed and software can`t tell the difference(as far as i know!)Of course the thing to remember is that with MX you`re allready capturing at 120 fps to start with,so goodness knows how far you could push the final rate before it `looking cheesy` as you say.
I`m hope some experts here chime in,i`d like to know a bit more myself!
 
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Graham_C said:
By push the limits i assume you mean create greater than 120fps in post? Well the most extreme example i`ve seen of this that still looks pretty ok is here.. http://vimeo.com/13557939 a pretty fluid looking 1000fps using Twixtor i believe.Apologies in advance that it`s not MX sensor based,but here the point is to give you an example of how far frame rates can be pushed and software can`t tell the difference(as far as i know!)Of course the thing to remember is that with MX you`re allready capturing at 120 fps to start with,so goodness knows how far you could push the final rate before it `looking cheesy` as you say.Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Wow. Twixtor is very impressive.
 
Sam Eilertsen said:
Wow. Twixtor is very impressive.
Click to expand...

Yes it looks amazing,couldn`t believe it when i first saw how well it pushes 60 fps to 1000fps, allthough i believe only certain types of footage respond well to big fps enhancements.
Imagine starting with 120fps from the MX sensor,or 150fps from Scarlet,let alone 250fps from Epic! (and fingers crossed that Jim has some secret Xlarge fps sauce brewing for the future)
Anyone done any big Twixtor or Kronos re-timing with your RED ?
 
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I can upload some 120 fps red MX shots rendered to 1200 pfs in Kronos next week, got some files at work but not in till next week. Looks pretty impressive I must say.
It's a close-up shot of a guy kicking a ball, so I think that's an "easy" shot to do though, should be tougher with a wide angled shot.
Only used Kronos, not familiar with Twixtor, but hear they got some impressive technique too. The Foundry added CUDA support on Kronos 5 though, really cool with a quadro card. But even without it it's pretty fast too.

(BTW not to spam, but the Kronos 5 plugin is on sale right now, €85/$100)
 
Looking forward to that Beer,1200 Fps,nice one.
Is Kronos 5 just Kronos but with CUDA,or has the base re-timing algorithmn been updated to?

And welcome to Reduser!
 
we shoot at 100-120 FPS and push to 250 FPS in twixtor all the time for action sports. Carefully executed can look great. 2K has some unique challenges, but they can be met. Beyond 250FPS we begin to get artifacts that are not ideal, but its very subject dependent.
 
I think the base algorithm has been updated too, because on my own set (without Quadro) it's working +- 5 times faster too.

And the shot I did was a fairly close shot, so I guess that makes it easier for Kronos to super slomo without showing artifacts.


Thanks for the welcome :)
 
Anson can you share an example clip possibly? I've seen the 7D bike footage that Graham mentioned earlier in the thread but can't quite tell if there is any artifacting. Wondering how the RED at 120fps with high shutter speed will react (itching to try, but in LA visiting and my RED is at home on the east coast). Considering Twixtor for an upcoming project that I wanted to push beyond 250fps, but wanted to seriously consider this over a Phantom rental if I can pull my RED footage up in an acceptable way.

Beer I'd love see some of your examples too, from Kronos, if you have the time.

Warm regards- :)
 
Pierce,

I don't have time to upload specifics, but this was shot at 100FPS (16:9 you can only get 100, not 120, as you know) and the central ramp is slowed down 60% in twixtor. We tried pushing it beyond that in Twixtor and it gets nasty. We shot at 1/250, 100 FPS as my experiences tells me that higher angle shutter than 180 is better for twixtoring. But other types of shots we've pushed harder - I've never been able to twixtor much beyond 250 FPS from 100FPS 2K and have it look natural.

http://www.vimeo.com/17310515

This also has many twixtored areas - 50FPS slowed 50% to 100, and 100FPS slowed to 200:

http://www.vimeo.com/17504899

Sorry for the rough nature of the pieces, they are development sketch tests for a film. Shot on MX using RPZ 17-50 mostly at about F5 or 6. Redcode 28. Grading only in RCX, rough.
 
These are super great shots ! Wonderful job man !
 
Love the jumps.

Pierce Cook said:
Anson can you share an example clip possibly? I've seen the 7D bike footage that Graham mentioned earlier in the thread but can't quite tell if there is any artifacting. Wondering how the RED at 120fps with high shutter speed will react (itching to try, but in LA visiting and my RED is at home on the east coast). Considering Twixtor for an upcoming project that I wanted to push beyond 250fps, but wanted to seriously consider this over a Phantom rental if I can pull my RED footage up in an acceptable way.

Beer I'd love see some of your examples too, from Kronos, if you have the time.

Warm regards- :)
Click to expand...

Take a look under the front wheel at 00:57.
 
Most of the slow shots occur against a white blown-out sky to hide the twixtor artifacts, whenever the wheels of the bike start distorting the BG he ramps back to normal speed. It shows the limitation of the plugin.

Considering one starts with twice the FPS and four times the resolution, better results will be possible.
 
I am not sure if or how well Apple Motion handles RED Footage, but it has a feature called "Optical Flow" in timing, which i think was taken from Shake. You might want to do a test with that too if you already have FCP Studio... a free solution to start with. Good luck!
 
You will get very similar results using the optical flow re-timing in shake. Morphing can been seen when bg elements are complex and if the footage is slowed too much. Thats my experience using non-red non 2-4k res footage.
 
yes optical flow in shake, and kronos in nuke, (or as a plug-in for after effects), or twixtor - all good options for post slo-mo. if it's just one shot, there are definitely more options that are reasonable... like rotoscoping and making mattes, in addition to the use of one of these, to hide artifacts. or you could draw some in-betweens :)
 
As long as you shoot stuff that the plugin likes, you're OK - what often looks weird is blowing grass, water (example above looks cool, but does not look natural) and waving hair, along with situations where there are two motions in two directions passing in front of each other - like someone waving a hand one way while behind the fingers you can see their other hand waving the other way.
 
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