Proposal for Epic-X Stage2 Phases.

[Robert Frank]

This proposal is intended to be a win-win for RED and it's customers.


1) To benefit RED by allowing more customers to not trade-in RED One cameras
2) To benefit RED customers by adding to the Epic-X Stage2 options.


A) Epic-X Stage2-Phase1: RED One owners who opted into Stage2 before the May 5 deadline.

B) Epic-X Stage2-Phase2: RED One owners who opt into Stage2 after the May 5 deadline.
Phase2 cameras would be delivered after the Stage2-Phase1 cameras, and based on time stamp of their order, not the original delivery date.

C) Epic-X Stage2-Phase3: RED One owners who who opted into Stage2 after all Epic-X Stage2-Phase1 and Epic-X Stage2-Phase2 are delivered.
Stage2-Phase3 that could be offered as an option at the same time as Stage3. All these cameras would then be delivered based on original delivery date.

 

[Robert Frank]

B) Epic-X Stage2-Phase2: RED One owners who opt into Stage2 after the May 5 deadline.
Phase2 cameras would be delivered after the Stage2-Phase1 cameras, and based on time stamp of their order, not the original delivery date.

Perhaps this should not be an option and leave the option for choosing Stage2 or Stage3 after all pre-May 5 Stage2 Epic-X's are delivered and Stage3 begins?

 

[Peter Hodgins]

Isn't all this just another way of asking that the May 5th deadline be extended? For instance your Phase2 participants could have realized their goal simply by entering your Phase1. A similar situation exists for your Phase3 folks, they could have achieved their goal simply by entering Phase1 ... I guess you're catering to a buyer who wants an Epic-X Stage2 but wants a late delivery even though he/she has a low RED ONE serial number? Is that it?

 

[Meryem Ersoz]

now we need to add phases to our Stages...

it's already complicated enough having 2 cameras and trying to maximize the Stages...it is so funny trying to explain all the angles to potential buyers of what was once my second and now will be (some time off in the future) my third camera. if-then, if-then...makes my head spin.

 

[Dave Weber]

It seem to me that you are either in or out ... no?

I think it's like the original ordering for RED One. There was a deadline and all that were in knew they wanted in.

People who chose not to participate in stage 2 and trade their RED One in on stage 3 would be pushed off by adding these Phases ...... seems like it would be unfair at this point.

 

[Subhadip Sen]

Stage 2 and 3 are one of those "once-in-a-lifetime" offers. I see no reason why there should be any more extensions, especially at this stage.

 

[rod bradley]

I think the win heavily favors the late-to-the-party customers in your proposal -- not Red.

 

[Sven Seynaeve]

Sorry , but I think everybody had plenty of time by now... and it wouldn't be fair to anyone who left some sleep thinking about what to do and when , and with which consequences following the decisions.

 

[Eli Jarra]

I think the win heavily favors the late-to-the-party customers in your proposal -- not Red.

We're not late to the party...we've always been here and truth be told I STILL couldn't pull the trigger on the offer.

Yes, I wanted to do stage 2, yes it's way more appealing to me and advantageous than stage 3.

Problem I have is I'm not dealing with one body, I'm dealing with two. 90% of my work is stereo. Can't go stage 2 on one Red and stage 3 on the other. There would be too much of a gap of time between stages. How much of a gap??? Never could get an answer to that question. I considered that to be pretty important since the amount of injected demand into this very saturated Los Angeles market could help offset the costs associated with Stage 2. Coupled by the fact that new information in regards to the Scarlet line was only a week and a half away, I never could understand why we couldn't have a small bit of extra deadline time to ingest this new information. Their S35 brain directly competes with the Epic counterpart and maybe good enough for me but since specs 'can and will change' I'd rather be happily surprised than disappointed in this ever important decision.
Finally the decision to make your Red count as executed regardless of whether your took delivery of Stage 2 or not was ultimately the deal breaker. In an extremely volitile market, I honestly cannot predict what's gonna happen in the next few months and wouldn't want to ultimately jeopardize being able to trade-in my very early Red(s) at all for Stage 3, which I considered to be my safety net.

 

[Robert Frank]

Thanks for the thoughts everybody.

For the record I have no significant agenda here. I tried to sell my RED One to assist in getting Stage 2 but it didn't work out, so I'm now completely happy to be able to use my RED one until Stage 3. It's an incredible opportunity and I'm very grateful to RED for having created this upgrade program.

My thinking behind this was to help those who may have wanted to keep their RED Ones but didn't think they would be able to pony up the entire 19.5K in time when they get the 30 day pay up notice.

What I suspect may happen is it pushes those folks who want to upgrade to Epic-X into be required to return their RED One as part of Stage 3.

Does RED really want more cameras or less cameras returned?

It does, however, seem to overly complicate and already complicated situation. And I'm all for making things easier and not harder.

 

[jonnycom]

Red needs to have a stage were if you buy the MX upgrade you can keep your camera and do the stage 3 for the full 17.5 credit. Let's face it the R1's are going to be paper weights when the Epics are everywhere even with the MX. This way Red makes the $5k on the upgrade sensor and you still get full credit toward the Epic.

I have pulled the trigger for Stage 2 on a couple of cameras that have been upgraded to the MX but I will hold off on the rest of our R1's for the MX upgrade because I want to turn them in. If Red had this program in effect they would have my money for the rest of the R1 upgrades...... and I think the profit is good on those MX upgrades.

 

[Robert Frank]

I think the win heavily favors the late-to-the-party customers in your proposal -- not Red.

How so? RED would not be getting a camera returned to them. What am I missing?

I'm not suggesting an extension to the overall duration of the upgrade schedule. Of course this has to finally end so that RED and it's customers will no longer have to be distracted with the thinking about and dealing with the upgrade program.

 

[Jim Retar]

Has there been any word on what will happen to those R1s?... I hate to think of them stored away somewhere... so i can see where Robert is coming from.

 

[Robert Frank]

Isn't all this just another way of asking that the May 5th deadline be extended? For instance your Phase2 participants could have realized their goal simply by entering your Phase1. A similar situation exists for your Phase3 folks, they could have achieved their goal simply by entering Phase1 ... I guess you're catering to a buyer who wants an Epic-X Stage2 but wants a late delivery even though he/she has a low RED ONE serial number? Is that it?

Not to extend the May 5 Stage 2 deadline, but to allow later RED One owners the chance to keep their RED One cameras, but need more time to make that happen. They would lose their place in line for delivery as a result.

Then RED doesn't have a camera returned that could be out there working.

 

[Robert Frank]

I'm not heavily invested in this concept, but I'm not sure I see where letting people pick Stage 2 or Stage 3 after all the pre-May 5 Stage 2 cameras get delivered, is a big problem.

But I can see how those at RED might be saying, "oh man, now what?. More logistical insanity to deal with? NO WAY".

 

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Has there been any word on what will happen to those R1s?... I hate to think of them stored away somewhere... so i can see where Robert is coming from.

honestly.. they will be outdated and new tech will take the place..

these cameras are nothing but computers..

I buy a computer 6 months ago.. and those parts are already out dated..

not saying the camera wont still take the same incredible images it does..

but i doubt there would be real reason to resell at that point, vs scrap it.

but I dont know.. time will tell

 

[Philippe Van Horebeek]

With the existence of the M-x sensor, the older R1's will be outdated. Ever since its presentation , newcomers want to get into the new technology.
The only win situation here is for RED to get into the market with this new technology and start selling camera's to compagnies and the public (and make custumors). Therefore stages 2 & 3 has to be executed as fast as they can !!
Stretching all this in different phases would be really bad for the RED Compagny. The new tech with Mx sensor (R1 Mx, Scarlet, Epic) simply doesn't exist for the market today, simply because of these stages.

It's good that RED rewards early adopters, but within limits. Those compagnies or people who are not in the situation of stepping into stage 2 or 3 in time maybe disappointed. But one must realize that this is the exact situation of those compagnies and people who are also early believers but weren't in the situation to get into Red at the time. They also cannot profit from all benefits RED is giving. Instead, not belonging to the 'the club of the happy few', they still have to wait for a very long time to even get a chance of buying one.
For some compagnies it makes RED less interesting (uncertain business).

A very good reason for RED to get on doing business !

 

[Jim Retar]

honestly.. they will be outdated and new tech will take the place..

While I agree with the statement... it would be nice to think those R1s might find a place to continue creating amazing images (film schools maybe?).

It is often better to learn on older technology so that you don't cut corners (you would have to learn how to light better for the lower sensitivity, for example).

 

[Robert Frank]

It's good that RED rewards early adopters, but within limits.

I agree with you.

I'm not suggesting an extension to the overall duration of the upgrade schedule. Of course this has to finally end so that RED and it's customers will no longer have to be distracted with the thinking about and dealing with the upgrade program.

Again, I'm amazed that this upgrade program exists. I've never had any product from any company that I was able to trade in at original cost toward a brand new model.

And to top it off the new product is an extraordinary improvement over the old model, not an incremental upgrade to the old model with just a few new features stuck on it.

 

[Mark Andersen]

honestly.. they will be outdated and new tech will take the place..

these cameras are nothing but computers..

I buy a computer 6 months ago.. and those parts are already out dated..

not saying the camera wont still take the same incredible images it does..

but i doubt there would be real reason to resell at that point, vs scrap it.

but I dont know.. time will tell

I think the R1s will have a lot of life in them, particularly the MX'ed cameras. Maybe this crowd will want more but there will be lots of new comers, students, rentals, entry level buyers etc. who will love them. These folks will get their feet wet on the R1, get hooked, and then want the newer toys. Red will do well to get as many cameras in the hands of as many folks as they can.