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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Projection complaints (AGAIN)

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kraemer

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I urge you cinematographers, no I BEG you cinematographers to get out there in the theaters and have a look at how your work is being projected. I recently watched Mad Max Fury road, which is arguably tack sharp, and high contrast already, in just about every scene. It was made painfully unwatchable for me because of the dreaded "Vibrant mode" that most theaters are using now. You know that horrible mode your TV has, that overly sharpens the picture, cranks up the contrast, and adds some frame interpolation? You know the one, because it makes your eyes bleed. Now a lot of movie theater owners have discovered this setting in either their media server or projector and have cranked it up to nauseating levels. Movies weren't meant to be seen this way, if they were, we'd all go over to my dear old mothers house and watch them on a 65 inch Samsung permanently stuck in store display mode.


Please, please, make this stop. If all of our films are going to look like a bad TV set, then what is the point of going to the theater?
 
I saw it in digital 2D and it looked fine.
 
David Mullen ASC said:
Theaters generally don't change the standard DCP settings, what you are seeing is the way it looked in most theaters, the way it was color-corrected and sent out.
Click to expand...

David, I saw it a second time at a different theater where the output was unmolested. I BEG of you to look into this. It is becoming a real problem, especially on films that are already punched up in sharpness.
 
It is my guess that the producers/distributors pushed for "enhancements" to make it "pop", not the DP or creative team. In the case of Fury Road, I suspect most of the practical photography has significant motion blur since the camera and the subjects were in virtually constant motion, thus dramatically lowering effective resolution. When the "suits" saw it for the first time on a large screen I'd wager they were less than enthusiastic about the mushy image and demanded it be "fixed". I doubt they fully understood the technical ramifications of trying to create nonexistent edges in post processing and, sadder still, even if they did see how bad the result was, were unlikely to throw themselves under the bus for wasting time and money.

Cheers - #19
 
Making art, or selling sausages?

Making art, or selling sausages?

Danger. Variability between exhibition venues can be significant due to so many factors; bulb age (and lamps turned down below spec to extend their life), infrequent calibration, low standards for projectionists, etc. Like the horribly over compressed dreck considered "broadcast quality" these days, we live in an era where image quality, let alone fidelity to artistic vision, is an afterthought.

Cheers - #19
 
Let me put it a different way.
When you increase the contrast, increase the sharpness, and reduce the flicker up on the projection screen, you make it easier for a low fidelity device AKA "bootleggers" to tape the movie. Is this REALLY what you want to do?
 
Kraemer - have you observed this in more than one or two theatres with a film that wasn't Mad Max?

If not, it's more likely that it was those one or two theatres, and you should be complaining to those particular theatres.

If it's only been observed on Mad Max in particular, then yes Mad Max had a very aggressive grade - partly to match the 5Ds they were using as additional cameras to the primary cameras.
 
We're currently going through this on a small project we're releasing. Another trip to the cinema next week to check my work.

This isn't exclusive to pictures. Our audio guy keeps going on about how they're "PLAYING EVERYTHING AT DOLBY 4 NOW AND IT FUCKS MY WORK UP"
 
ericyoung said:
Kraemer - have you observed this in more than one or two theaters with a film that wasn't Mad Max?

If not, it's more likely that it was those one or two theaters, and you should be complaining to those particular theaters.

If it's only been observed on Mad Max in particular, then yes Mad Max had a very aggressive grade - partly to match the 5Ds they were using as additional cameras to the primary cameras.
Click to expand...

I have seen this on several different films, the effect was really exacerbated by Mad Max. Not all theaters are doing the "Vibrant mode", but more and more are starting to enable this option. I don't want to start naming theaters here, but I hope the word will get out before I have to resort to that.
 
I was definitely struck by how much aliasing I could see all over Mad Max, but I was under the impression that David is; that it was the fault of the source material and not the projector.
 
Since we did the opening titles / logo stuff (worn metal Warner Bros, Village Roadshow logos, etc), let me help break this down:

I saw Mad Max in IMAX 3D and our titles seemed correct and didn't have heavy added sharpening in the finished piece. Some other shots seemed quite sharpened, but it seemed an intentional creative choice. It did not seem like a mistake, just part of the mad, stylized world.

FILMMAKER'S INTENT
For Mad Max, and many other films, I'm sure they selectively apply sharpening for creative reasons.

HOWEVER... BAD DOWNSCALE COMBINED WITH PROJECTOR RESOLUTION <2K LEADS TO ISSUES
You could be watching it on a projector that's not 2K resolution. The projector could be lower-res and essentially doing line skipping or some other kind of poor downscale.

This would accentuate any sharpening done in the creative intent phase. Especially if the original content has a bunch of sharpening applied.

I saw Dark Knight Rises in South Africa on a big digital projection setup at a high-end cinema chain, with great sound, etc... except the projector was running at what seemed like 720p! Horrible aliasing everywhere.

IMAX UPSCALE
If you're watching it in IMAX, there's an additional proprietary upscale process that could be accentuating things. But again, I saw our titles in IMAX and I know each pixel of the darn things, so it didn't seem too different to me. Looked great, I thought, actually.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
 
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