Problems with Quantum LTO4 & Retrospect 6.1 on OS X

[ckarcher]

Yes Brian,

I also heard they were releasing a upgrade and it would be free, plus having the support contract at a modest rate is another great option. We opted for this because Tolis seems to really have a deep understanding of all the OS's- and so far- I've been very impressed with their responsiveness, knowledge and willingness to help- even before purchasing BRU.

 

[Dave Blackham]

Does anyone (Dave Blackham?) know how much the DAX plug in for Cat DV costs? Any specific experiences, pros&cons, etc. with that set up?

Thanks again.

Brian Timmons
britim media

Ill ask if the Quadlogic the supplier can provide and pricing info for you. It is very good if you want a fully managed system.

Dave

 

[Brian Timmons]

That's true about Tolis' support ckarcher. I was surprised at how responsive they were even when I was just running a demo version of the software at the time.

Ill ask if the Quadlogic the supplier can provide and pricing info for you. It is very good if you want a fully managed system.

Dave

Hey Dave,

That would be good if you could. I eventually would like to move to this setup. This would really come in handy for a documentary project I may be starting soon.

Brian Timmons
britim media

 

[warwickt]

I have been told that Quantum are aware of the issue and now have new firmware in beta that address's these issues and will bring the unit within "spec"

Bad news for Quantum LTO4 Ultrium SAS interface HH tape drive when I asked about my 5 month old open trouble ticket just before week of 23Dec2008 when I contacted them.

Simply this:
• there is NO work fix beta or otherwise to resolve the 'out of spec' issue with ATTO SAS EXPRESS HBA's. The guys name at Quantum is Mr Grant Waller.

"as per email: I have spoken with our engineers and the word back is the code is still be looked out, there isn’t a Beta version and as yet there isn’t an available fix. As soon as we hear concrete word from our engineering team, we’ll be sure to let you know"

Same old same old stuff. Simply if have been also told that most of their SAS Ultrium users using other HBAs on windows xp work fine and they have no real desire to perform what seems a large firmware change to fix this issue.

Additionally I contacted ATTOTECH with my open trouble ticket for the ATTO EXPRESS SAS HBAs not working with Quantum and was also informed that:
•*they cant do anything until quantum fix there end and more promisingly is
• that ATTOTECH new flavour of 6Gbe SAS HBAs will support he existing quantum tape drive.

Now.. for that I might look at it.

Anyway guys simply there is NO QUANTUM FORWARE UPDATE BETA or otherwise for the Quantum Ultrium HH SAS LTO4 tape drive.\

Lastlyy after a HUGE effort , dramas and two days to use BOOTCAMP and windows XP on this macpro to perform a firmware update on both my LSI SAS3442-E PCE HBA and the QUANTUM HH SAS Ultrium4 tape drive, I have no further results to tell you other than only HP is to provide some SAS TAPE DRIVE firmware update natively on MAC OSX in the future. cant wait for this.

Quantum is forever off my shopping and recommendation list.

hth
w

 

[Brian Timmons]

Bad news for Quantum LTO4 Ultrium SAS interface HH tape drive when I asked about my 5 month old open trouble ticket just before week of 23Dec2008 when I contacted them.

Simply this:
• there is NO work fix beta or otherwise to resolve the 'out of spec' issue with ATTO SAS EXPRESS HBA's. The guys name at Quantum is Mr Grant Waller.

"as per email: I have spoken with our engineers and the word back is the code is still be looked out, there isn’t a Beta version and as yet there isn’t an available fix. As soon as we hear concrete word from our engineering team, we’ll be sure to let you know"

Same old same old stuff. Simply if have been also told that most of their SAS Ultrium users using other HBAs on windows xp work fine and they have no real desire to perform what seems a large firmware change to fix this issue.

Additionally I contacted ATTOTECH with my open trouble ticket for the ATTO EXPRESS SAS HBAs not working with Quantum and was also informed that:
•*they cant do anything until quantum fix there end and more promisingly is
• that ATTOTECH new flavour of 6Gbe SAS HBAs will support he existing quantum tape drive.

Now.. for that I might look at it.

Anyway guys simply there is NO QUANTUM FORWARE UPDATE BETA or otherwise for the Quantum Ultrium HH SAS LTO4 tape drive.\

Lastlyy after a HUGE effort , dramas and two days to use BOOTCAMP and windows XP on this macpro to perform a firmware update on both my LSI SAS3442-E PCE HBA and the QUANTUM HH SAS Ultrium4 tape drive, I have no further results to tell you other than only HP is to provide some SAS TAPE DRIVE firmware update natively on MAC OSX in the future. cant wait for this.

Quantum is forever off my shopping and recommendation list.

hth
w

Interesting info. I didn't get too far myself when I tried flashing the Quantum drive through Windows on my Mac either. Didn't really know where to begin after downloading the firmware file. It didn't seem like windows saw the Quantum drive at all even with the driver software.

Given that OSX is Unix based, runs on Intel hardware, and rather popular I think its basically lazy if not negligent to not have basic tools like updating the firmware available.

Perhaps this is fallout from Apple not supplying it's own drivers for these tape drives. Whatever the case, it makes working with these drives more adventurous than it needs to be on a Mac.

I'm glad to hear that HP will be providing better support though their drives seems to need it the least.

Brian Timmons
britim media

 

[Kenneth Bell]

Cat DV & DAX

Cat DV & DAX

Ill ask if the Quadlogic the supplier can provide and pricing info for you. It is very good if you want a fully managed system.

Dave

Please find enclosed DAX pricing for archiving not backup. The price is based on the size of the storage you wish to archive. Bru Server provides the interface to multiple tape devices.

The US distributor
Matthew Stamos
Sales Engineer
JB&A Distribution
1050 Northgate Drive., Ste 200
San Rafael CA 94903
Mobile 415-608-4725
Phone 415-256-2800
Fax 415-256-2811

mattstamos@jbanda.com
www.jbanda.com

Thanks

Ken Bell
Quad Logic Systems Ltd

 

[Brian Timmons]

Thanks for the info Kenneth. I just sent an email to Matt.

Brian Timmons
britim media

 

[Greg M]

Retrospect 8.0 is now available

 

[Simon Blackledge]

Retrospect 8.0 is now available

It's Beta though.

No tape support and crashes alot


s

 

[warwickt]

It's Beta though.

No tape support and crashes alot


s

NOt surprised about the no tape support because despite EMC owning several old tape based companies such as AVALON/Legato/OTC to name a few , EMC is a DISK company. :blush:
w

 

[warwickt]

ATTOTECH EXPRESSSAS HBA and QUANTUM LTO4 Ultrium tape drives - some news!

ATTOTECH EXPRESSSAS HBA and QUANTUM LTO4 Ultrium tape drives - some news!

Guys, for those with QUANTUM LTO4 Ultrium HH SAS tape drives (with or without LSI SAS3xxxxE HBA's) using  OSX on a MACPRO, here's some small updates from ATTO TECH this week.

I chased support at ATTO TECH and one of the sales guys for some updates and here is a summary:

• ATTO TECH's newrange of EXPRESSSAS 6Gbe SAS HBA DO support the current Quantum HH SAS TO4 Ultrium tape drive model TC-L42BN
• these are not yet available to the end consumer until March
• these will only be SAS HBAs and not RAID cards at this time
• EXPRESS SAS RAID 6Gbe HBAs a little later down the track

So this means that anyone stuck with a QUANTUM HH SAS TO4 Ultrium tape drive model TC-L42BN on a MACPRO may utilise the NEW ATTOTECH 6Gbe HBA.

It was explained to me that the new ATTOTECH EXPRESSSAS 6Gbe HBA product line use a different controller chip so I guess there's some magic firmware in there that compensates for Quantums LTO4 Ultrium SAS out of spec firmware.

At least anyone with a MACPRO (OSX) can comfigure the HBA with ATTOTECH OSX based utilities without resorting to another platform to perform simple firmware updates such as LSI.

this is good news for me!

HTH's someone.

w

 

[Greg M]

Thank you for stopping by, Adrian.

I'm a BRU convert now. I am successfully using the Quantum LTO-4 SAS unit w/LSI controller. It seems that reports I have seen here and on other sites related to problems with the Quantum drive point to issues with older firmware. I can not substantiate this myself as mine is running fine.

I have also had some recent experiences with the HP LTO-4 SAS and an ATTO controller and that combination also worked well. I would recommend either solution to OSX users, however I find these manufacturers' lack of direct support for OSX to be quite unsettling. Either drive requires being connected to a Windows system just to upgrade firmware or perform proper diagnostics.

Which version of BRU are you running?

 

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Which version of BRU are you running?

BRU LE - latest version. I don't recall my block size, etc.. settings off the top of my head, but I did have to change one setting from default. But it's working good.

The Quantum drive works just fine with BRU, Retrospect 6.x and ATempo using the standard LSI controller.

Knowing what I know now about desktop LTO-4 drives, I may consider buying the HP drive with ATTO controller if I did it over again, maybe. Then again the Quantum drive isn't as bad as what warkickt keeps saying. I've helped a few other people get their drives running. In all situations, it only took a firmware update to the drive. For some people, that is a daunting and scary task when they have to create a non-OSX CD to boot from. But that's another matter. A couple of the past firmware revisions for the drive were screwy as far as operating parameters. It seems there are still some issues with some HBAs, namely ATTO and Areca. Quantum and ATTO are pointing fingers at each other. Some Tandberg drives are having trouble with ATTO SAS controllers too.

I wish I had more access to other drives and controllers to do real testing. All I can really say is that In addition to my own Quantum LTO-4 HH unit running fine, I know of 4 others also running on OSX. And I know of one HP unit running on OSX too. The Quantum drive is not perfect, I'm not claiming that, but it works and has been relatively problem free. Too bad the internal fan is so loud... That's actually my biggest complaint about this unit. So I only power it on when I need it, but OSX doesn't like that very much. I have to power the system down, switch on the drive, then power-up otherwise it sometimes doesn't register properly or can act funny. The HP unit is also equipped with a loud fan, but it's not as loud and whiny as the Quantum unit.

 

[warwickt]

BRU LE - latest version. I don't recall my block size, etc.. settings off the top of my head, but I did have to change one setting from default. But it's working good.

The Quantum drive works just fine with BRU, Retrospect 6.x and ATempo using the standard LSI controller.

Knowing what I know now about desktop LTO-4 drives, I may consider buying the HP drive with ATTO controller if I did it over again, maybe. Then again the Quantum drive isn't as bad as what warkickt keeps saying. I've helped a few other people get their drives running. In all situations, it only took a firmware update to the drive. For some people, that is a daunting and scary task when they have to create a non-OSX CD to boot from. But that's another matter. A couple of the past firmware revisions for the drive were screwy as far as operating parameters. It seems there are still some issues with some HBAs, namely ATTO and Areca. Quantum and ATTO are pointing fingers at each other. Some Tandberg drives are having trouble with ATTO SAS controllers too.

I wish I had more access to other drives and controllers to do real testing. All I can really say is that In addition to my own Quantum LTO-4 HH unit running fine, I know of 4 others also running on OSX. And I know of one HP unit running on OSX too. The Quantum drive is not perfect, I'm not claiming that, but it works and has been relatively problem free. Too bad the internal fan is so loud... That's actually my biggest complaint about this unit. So I only power it on when I need it, but OSX doesn't like that very much. I have to power the system down, switch on the drive, then power-up otherwise it sometimes doesn't register properly or can act funny. The HP unit is also equipped with a loud fan, but it's not as loud and whiny as the Quantum unit.

Hi Jeff, yep! Quantum TC-L42BN SAS LTO4 HH tape drive works fine for me too with the LSI SAS2442E-R on SLOT4 PCIE as a (x4 lane - config02) on my MACPRO 2007 8core despite my constant whinging about it. (its the company's support that frustrates me). loL! :sad: Data rates are about 105MB-108MB/sec ( iostat read from disk array) using both the ATTOTECH EXPRESS SAS R380 HBA and the LSI SAS3442E-R using a LARGE object (proressHQ and R3D objects). no complaints on this. (data rates quite dependent on the SIZE of the objects being archived/recalled)

Interesting about the TANDBERG LTO4 drives and ATTOTECH. Maybe ATTOTECH have fixed this in their new line of EXRESSSAS HBAs at 6Gbs. I'm informed they have moved away form Intel controller to a PMC chip in the new models of SAS HBA's and ATTO have told me that these work fine with QUANTUM SAS LTO4 Ultrium sas tape drives so I'd reckon a good chance for Tandberg too (here's hoping).

Yes , I agree with Jeff concerning the noise of the Quantum TC-L42BN SAS LTO4 HH tape drive that compared to the HP Full HEIGHT 1840 and the HP HH 1760 which I have here as well, the Quantum is very noisy and a bit overall feels klunky and slightly sluggy with tape media transport actions (SPACE | LOCATE, REWOFF, REWIND) but was the cheapest of the drives when I started looking in June 2008. (you get what you pay for).

I too took the  bootcamp and XP route in my MACPRO to update both firmware in my QUANTUM TC-L42BN and LSI LOGIC SAS3442E-R PCIE HBA (in HBA only mode) with no change in previous results with the Aug2007 firmware.

AS I have posted a few time BLOCKSIZES on the TAPE media using the LSI LOGIC SAS3442E-R PCIE SAS HBA on my MACPRO seem to be limited to no more than 1MB (1024KB). Simply a large blocksize (specified by BRU UI or CLI) knock the MACPRO over instantly on the first WRITE or READ request to the tape drive!

Simply for the this LSI HBA I must keep block sizes to 1024KB or less.

WIth the ATTOTECH EXPRESSAS HBAs and HP tape drives the blocksizes (bufsizes) seem to flexible to use to a point.

Unfortuantely I am unable to test out the QUANTUM TC-L42BN SAS LTO4 HH tape drives with anything larger than a 1MB block size (bufsize) due to:

• QUANTUM TC-L42BN LTO4 SAS and ATTO EXPRESSAS 3Gbs HBA not working and
• seemingly real operational limitation of LSI SAS3442E-R SAS PCIE HBA not supporting a blocksize/throughput on his. This could be a fault of the MACPRO 2007 8CORE.. I dunno

hth
w

 

[Daniel Moshel]

how to adjust blocksize with bru pe?

how to adjust blocksize with bru pe?

...
AS I have posted a few time BLOCKSIZES on the TAPE media using the LSI LOGIC SAS3442E-R PCIE SAS HBA on my MACPRO seem to be limited to no more than 1MB (1024KB). Simply a large blocksize (specified by BRU UI or CLI) knock the MACPRO over instantly on the first WRITE or READ request to the tape drive!

Simply for the this LSI HBA I must keep block sizes to 1024KB or less.
...
[/LIST]

hth
w

Hi Warwickt
I was just wondering if you could give me a hint where to change the blocksize in bru pe? i think i just manged to make my first backup with the lsi & quantum combination. now, when I try to restore the backup the tape drive scans for archives endlessly and reports some"#catalog errors"?!? so i guess maybe it has something to do with the blocksizes. or are there any other suggestion what i might be?
thx for any tips in advance
daniel

ahhhh: ok just found it in the preferences pane in brue pe (block sizes are default on 128kb)! so sorry for asking stupid questions....but the catalog issue is still worrying me.
regardz
d

 

[warwickt]

Hi Warwickt
I was just wondering if you could give me a hint where to change the blocksize in bru pe? i think i just manged to make my first backup with the lsi & quantum combination. now, when I try to restore the backup the tape drive scans for archives endlessly and reports some"#catalog errors"?!? so i guess maybe it has something to do with the blocksizes. or are there any other suggestion what i might be?
thx for any tips in advance
daniel

ahhhh: ok just found it in the preferences pane in brue pe (block sizes are default on 128kb)! so sorry for asking stupid questions....but the catalog issue is still worrying me.
regardz
d

Hi daniel.. yeah sorry mate.. I just saw your post.

Yep its in the BRU-PE preferences.

Also, be aware that BRU-PE initialisation logic tries to ascertain plausible / acceptable /capable blocksizes form any powered on and attached tape drives when BRU-PE starts up.

AS I found out, if there are no tape drives powered on and attached when BRU-PE starts you get a default set which may not incluse the larger blocksizes | bufsizes.

This information courtesy Tolisgroup

OH and using the LSI SAS3442E HBA on the MACPRO DO NOT MAKE THE BLOCKSIZE | NUFSIZE any larger than 1MB (1024KB) as it will lock you mac pro up with a "POWER ME OFF AND ON" again message. LSI SAS PCIEs seem to have some issue with large data blocks. I dunno if this is true on the 2008 MACPROS.. maybe someone can confirm. My macpro is a 2007 3GHZ clovetown? 8xcore jobbie.

Regarding the catalogue issue, I would suggest for a quick resolution that you contact TOLISGROUP with the symptom and all the information you can muster. BRU-PE is in BETA so they will advise you.

HTH in some way.

Feel free to PM if you like.

cheers

w

 

[Tim Jones]

when I try to restore the backup the tape drive scans for archives endlessly and reports some"#catalog errors"?!? so i guess maybe it has something to do with the blocksizes. or are there any other suggestion what i might be?

Daniel,

Have you sent a note to the PE BETA team about this? We don't know of a problem with 2048K and the Quantum drive / LSI combination, but it's sounds like you were still using 128K.

Tim

 

[Jake McCurdy]

Anyone have anything recent on using a ATTO card with the L42BN? I got a great deal on a L42BN and an ATTO H380 ($750/both) and decided to take the risk despite what I had read. Called TOLIS and they told me it'll never work on a mac. I told them I had an IT guy test the card/drive on Linux (because I heard it would never work with Mac) and it worked fine. They said it might work for a few GB (they 200GB max though I got the feeling they were pulling that out of the air since it was only in response to my 'my guy said it worked' comment). Anyway, don't want to beat up on TOLIS but I'm running a full tape right now and it's past 300GB with no apparent problems. It is running slow at 2.5GB/m (35MB/s?) with Retrospect 8 but it keeps chugging along. Not sure if the poor speed is related to the drive as some have alluded or just config since I pretty much un-boxed and ran it.

ATTO has seems to think the problem has been fixed with the latest quantum firmware: http://www.attotech.com/support/trouble/sas.html

Firware checks shows the drives firmware at V2210. ATTO firmware 1.2.7 on my units.

After spending hours on the forums here and elsewhere I only saw a few people who claimed success with the config above on a mac so I suppose I'm writing this hoping that the next guy like me who finds a great deal on one of these drives finds this instead of all the outdated info out there.

Has anyone used the above with TOLIS on a Mac? They told me it would never work with any software so I didn't get very far into the sales call with them : )

 

[Jake McCurdy]

UPDATE: The above configuration works great with TOLIS BRU LE. Ran 3 tapes through all passed verify and write speed jumped to 115MB/s once I switched from Retrospect to TOLIS. I think it's safe to say all the issues with using the Rev A. Quantum HH drives have been ironed out with the latest firmware.