Problem with Scarlet audio setup with Audio Technica 88w wireless

[Joesef o.]

I'm trying to get my setup correct directly hooking up an Audio Technica 88w wireless system. Here's the details:

I connect the "Mic out" to the provided 1/8 cable to the input of my Scarlet front 1/8 connection.

I get VERY low sound, im talking if I scream I get a tiny bit of a bump. I tried changing pre-amp levels to all the way up, and put the mix all the way up, still hardly getting a signal.

Next I tried just for the heck of it the "Phones Out" on the audio technica, same setup. BLASTING loud. I lowered everything, still to loud. I brought to pre-amp to the lowest settings and the mix to 3 notches about its lowest setting. There's still some clipping in there, but its farily clean.

Whats going on here? What am I missing? I'm pretty sure I should be using the "Mic Out" to the camera, but I'm not getting anything. The cable being connected is a TRS 1/8 that was provided. I noticed that the "Phone out" connection is Mono-LEFT only, no right signal if you connected regular stereo headphones to it. I haven't tried hooking up headphones to the mic out but anyway... could it be the cable setup?

Someone have an audio technica 88w and gotten it to work correctly with their camera? Is it my camera settings I'm messing up somewhere? I'm fairly competent in this stuff, and know the menus pretty well, but im stumped.

Help! lol:blink:

 

[Mike P.]

I'm not sure, since I don't have an AT88w, but try balanced/unbalanced (It'll likely need to be unbalanced with 1/8" jack). Also, the mic inputs on the brain need to be mic-level, otherwise they'll over modulate and need a ~20db pad. OH, and it *may need to be* a mono-1/8" cable... Since a stereo jack can be wired wrong (the one with ring, sleeve, and tip insulators on the jack), which is like a $3 cable from RadioShack or what-have-you.

Hopefully all of that makes sense.

 

[Joesef o.]

Nuts, thanks, already tried that stuff too, it's very odd, hopefully someone with this setup will chime in soon enough

 

[Mike P.]

Do you have another (wired) mic that you can test? You know, to make sure the audio actually works properly before trying to troubleshoot the AT88 (a wireless system)?

Like with the entry-level Sennheisers I use, you have volume control on both the transceiver (for the mic sensitivity) and receiver (output volume to whatever recording device). Then on top of that you have the camera's audio adjustments. If the AT88 is the same, it could be that one or two ( both the Tx and Rx) are set incredibly low for mic-level (which would still overmod when set to line-level).

 

[D Fuller]

The fact that connecting the headphone to the Scarlet gives you loud sound almost surely means the camera is working properly. The mic appears to only output mic level, and the Scarlet brain only takes mic level, so you're all good there. (The headphone output is so friggin' loud because they run at higher than mic level.)

So there are just a few possibilities here:

1. You are set to balanced audio and possibly phantom power is on. That mic is unbalanced, so the camera needs to be set to unbalanced. (Phantom power will then be disabled as well.)

2. The 1/8" trs cable that came with the mic is wired wrong for Red's input. With three conductors, there are several ways this could be wired. Only one of those would be right. I can't find a wiring spec for the mic anywhere, so it's hard to know how it is wired, but to be compatible with your Scarlet, the tip must be + and the ring -. (This spec is in the DSMC manual.) I am most suspicious of this. If the provided cable is wired to be compatible with stereo 1/8" mic inputs, it is likely to be wired with + going to both the tip and the ring. If that is the case, you simply need a new cable. You should be able to sort out the specs for that cable with A-T support.

3. The level on the mic might simply be low. I don't expect this is the case, but there is a question on the A-T web page for this mic asking why the level is so low. (My guess is that person has a level mismatch or a cable mismatch as well.)

 

[Marc Wielage]

I would also try an outboard mixer -- even a tiny one, like the Sound Devices Mix Pre -- and see what happens when you feed in the mic this way. My gut feeling is that you either have a gain staging problem, or the mic's phantom power is off (or too low).

 

[D Fuller]

I would also try an outboard mixer -- even a tiny one, like the Sound Devices Mix Pre -- and see what happens when you feed in the mic this way. My gut feeling is that you either have a gain staging problem, or the mic's phantom power is off (or too low).

Marc, this is a wireless mic with an unbalanced out. It doesn't want phantom power. (This is a pretty cheap "camcorder mic" the OP is talking about.

Using a mixer is a fine idea, but finding one with a 1/8" unbalanced trs input that also puts out mic level won't be easy. I'm pretty sure the mix pre doesn't have either of those things.

 

[Joesef o.]

2. The 1/8" trs cable that came with the mic is wired wrong for Red's input. With three conductors, there are several ways this could be wired. Only one of those would be right. I can't find a wiring spec for the mic anywhere, so it's hard to know how it is wired, but to be compatible with your Scarlet, the tip must be + and the ring -. (This spec is in the DSMC manual.) I am most suspicious of this. If the provided cable is wired to be compatible with stereo 1/8" mic inputs, it is likely to be wired with + going to both the tip and the ring. If that is the case, you simply need a new cable. You should be able to sort out the specs for that cable with A-T support.

I have a feeling this is what the actual problem is, because I have set everything else correctly and tested everything else in the proper way. I even switched cables with a unit that works but that didn't help, my assumption is they wired the mic output TRS in a way that the RED input doesn't like, so finding the right polarity is like the problem. Where did you find out that on the Scarlet the tip must be +? maybe i can make my own wire just to test this out and get it working the right way.

 

[Marc Wielage]

Marc, this is a wireless mic with an unbalanced out. It doesn't want phantom power. (This is a pretty cheap "camcorder mic" the OP is talking about.

Ah, I missed the "wireless" section in the first post. Is there a means to adjust the output volume of the wireless system? It seems to me that this is a pretty basic gain staging system, where the output of the microphone receiver has to be optimized for the input on which it's going to be recorded. I generally do this by using tone output and coming up with something that I think can reference to -20dBfs on the Red scale.

I'm not a big fan of the AudioTechnica wireless systems in general, but some of their mics are not terrible. I'd try a different system and see what happens.

 

[D Fuller]

I have a feeling this is what the actual problem is, because I have set everything else correctly and tested everything else in the proper way. I even switched cables with a unit that works but that didn't help, my assumption is they wired the mic output TRS in a way that the RED input doesn't like, so finding the right polarity is like the problem. Where did you find out that on the Scarlet the tip must be +? maybe i can make my own wire just to test this out and get it working the right way.

As is said in my earlier post, the wiring spec for the scarlet input is in the DSMC manual (ops guide). You can find it on this page: https://www.red.com/downloads

And it's not just that the tip has to be +, the ring also has to be -. (My guess is that it's the ring that's not right, but that's just a guess.)

 

[Ulf Krentz]

Pretty sure it´s the wiring, Scarlets input subtract left from right channel when using a "stereo" cable, I found this to be true even if the input is set to unbalanced. Get a stereo to mono adapter.

Cheers, Ulf

 

[Joesef o.]

Is there a means to adjust the output volume of the wireless system? It seems to me that this is a pretty basic gain staging system, where the output of the microphone receiver has to be optimized for the input on which it's going to be recorded.

Unfortunately this is a last second, second unit that was needed and its all I was given, the unit has NO output volume control, just as basic as you can get.

And it's not just that the tip has to be +, the ring also has to be -. (My guess is that it's the ring that's not right, but that's just a guess.)

I have a feeling thats EXACTLY what the problem is, I believe the ring is wired as + on the output of the wireless, meaning even switching cables wont do anything, and I'll have to custom make my own wire that takes the - channel out from the sleeve and wire it to the ring for the scarlet to get the proper signals. ugh... Thats a lot of work to make this little thing work. I wonder if others have this issue considering that a lot of stuff is wired +,+,- instead of +,-,-

 

[Joesef o.]

Pretty sure it´s the wiring, Scarlets input subtract left from right channel when using a "stereo" cable, I found this to be true even if the input is set to unbalanced. Get a stereo to mono adapter.

Cheers, Ulf

Ahh that's an excellent tip! I'll try using a stereo to mono first before I whip out the old soldering iron to make my own cable, that would save a lot of time. Thanks!