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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

PRO RES / DNXHD - MINI MODULE

Matt Gottshalk said:
Because not every client HAS a "modern computer".
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So maybe they should get one, if they insist to do the post production themselves? A basic 6-core 3.2 ghz workstation with a GTX580 costs about the same as three days with an epic camera...

EDIT: However, I agree that a DNxHD/ProRes module is needed as long as a modern workstation can't play Red's raw files in real time...
 
Erich Roland said:
Jon, you of coarse you do not have to buy the modual, everybody can choose it or not.
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I understand this, but if Red could use the same R&D to solve the biggest current issue of their system, a proxy module would perhaps be obsolete?

On storage: Are 4k debayered images really smaller than Red's raw files?
 
Love this idea but hasn't it already been confirmed that they will be releasing a small proxy module this year? The JuleBox, or JouleBox...

However, if this is just to say, "yea we know it exists, get to it faster..." well, I suppose that's an idea, but we already know Red does Red on Red's time. I feel like we are just adding to the "are we there yet?" noise and I can just hear my own mother saying, "we'll be there when we get there."

Maybe Red needs us annoying twats in the back seat, ha!.... even if Jarred is just shaking his head.
 
Jon MIchael Puntervold said:
So maybe they should get one, if they insist to do the post production themselves? A basic 6-core 3.2 ghz workstation with a GTX580 costs about the same as three days with an epic camera...
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Haha, I'd like to hear people trying to insist that upon their clients! :emote_hippie:

As wonderful as raw recording is, the simple fact is it isn't necessary for the vast majority of shooting that most people do. What IS necessary is fast, efficient and high-quality workflows that lower post-production time and costs, and ProRes/DNxHD offer that.

The 'Toia' Module, is (IMHO) more important for Red than Dragon right now.
 
Mark K. said:
Haha, I'd like to hear people trying to insist that upon their clients! :emote_hippie:
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I do that... or charge for the post-production of the raw files, or I rent them another simpler camera system when raw is counter productive to the client. There are a lot of good S35 videocameras on the marked now!

Mark K. said:
As wonderful as raw recording is, the simple fact is it isn't necessary for the vast majority of shooting that most people do.
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So what kind of shooting do most people do with the worlds most advanced digital CINEMA camera?


But please let me emphasize, as long as .r3d files does not work in real time on a modern computer. I agree with you! I only wish Red could give us the .r3d solution for 5k raw, without spending 15 000 USD on two RedRockets and a Cubix Xpander...
 
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The Only reason I would like one of these modules (now) is that a lot of my edit and post work happens on a laptop in a hotel room as I travel around the world shooting.

I don't have a powerful (tower) computer or a RED ROCKET in my bag so for me I need to edit from Pro res. Because its quick... End of story.
I can edit directly from R3D's but its still very very clunky, smashs my CPU to death, I have gone through 3 laptops already melting them.... and R3D's are so render intensive in a laptop. (the latest versions)

I master and grade from my R3D's once I finished my edit... or if the job needs to be out super quick, I'll finished from PRO RES but via REDLOGFILM PRORES files So at least I have something good to grade from.

Once Laptops can process 5 - 6k R3D data in real time.. that will be the day I drop PRORES as a editing codec. And we all know that will be some time away...

So till then.... Hit me with a 2k or 4k PRO RES RED LOG FILM recorder love please... :)
 
Without mirrored file naming any third party recorder is seriously handicapped. Some clients may only ever use the Pro Res but many of mine will use them as their offline material and matchback in the grade to the R3D files. Yes I know the Pix does this but its just too big and heavy for my taste and external cabling is another pain in the ass. I understand Red is doing this module but weirdly a whole year has gone by and the module functionality of the camera seems unrealized. Not one Red module rings my bell. Meizler just too expensive with many functions I do not need. Pro I/O module is tempting but adds more convenience than features. Still using my Red Bricks and Redvolts do not do it for me so no to the power modules. Where are some modules that will transform my camera?
 
Gunleik Groven said:
Actually, if 1080 is the delivery, playing back from the cam in realtime to uncompressed/prores, is as sensible as anything these days... :)
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Agree the epic / scarlet body is actually the fastest way to turn a 5k r3d to HD today. We bought a BM express thing, the one with in/out SDI to thunderbolt. It's actually quite valid as a traveler option.

So mark, a work to work could be:
Shoot redgamma3/redgamma3.
Then later at the hotel flip all files on the cards over to REDLOGFILM and do primary grade in RCXP.
Insert the cards in the camera and connect it to your BM express and play the files into you macbook air as proress 10 bit trough the thunderbolt port.

Now it would of course be very nice if RED made it possible to "play all clips on card". Then the BM express, that is small enough to fit in the pocket and runs without external power can just digest all cuts from one card after the other in real time into you laptop. for a cost of about 500 bucks.

It's ofcourse only HD and you would loose time code ref. But I guess if wanted you play out with TC / clip name overlay, then for commercial / short edits it would take no time to eye match back to the original r3d's if needed.
 
I would love to have onboard ProRes & DNxHD recording as an option if needed.

I am finding now I am up against more and more large format cameras to get work for my Epic. Not all the shoots have good budgets so an option to be able to streamline the post in either ProRes or DNxHD would be a great cost saving and so make me and my Epic more attractive to these clients. Because of this I have a Samurai recorder, but would love a onboard module to keep the camera size down and cables to a minimum.
 
One big reason to be on red.user every couple of hours is to check if there are news about the Julebox/Mini Module!
Will we hear more when the +1 Module sees the light of day (announced for February) ... or surprised, because it grew into something else...?

Can't stop drooling about it!
 
+1 here, there are some jobs for which RAW just isn't needed of convenient, but I still prefer shooting on my Scarlet, so an onboard ProRes/DNXHD recorder would be amazing - like many, the Meizler module is just way more than I need.
 
Agreed Tom, right on the money.

I have the i/o for convenience when needed but it's not exciting for sure. The +1 module adapter is something to 'fix' a glaring omission of no second evf/lcd port that should have been on the brain to start and for something so simple should have been available a long long time ago. The 'Toia' module and similar requests have been around for a very very long time also and still nothing. I love RED, their ethos and what they're doing, their cameras should stunning imagery and were leaps ahead in what they offered...once. But I tell you, an F55 with what it offers from 1080p to 4K, raw and baked images is golden. I'm expecting a lot of announcements ready to ship at NAB from RED or they will be shown who's leading and who's following. Dragon is fantastic but all their eggs shouldn't be in one basket. Well, they always are telling us they are listening and working for their customers...lets see! I would expect 99% of their customers would love this 'Toia module'...basic no brainer IMO.
 
Mark,
I'll raise both hands! The use of the EVF and LCD is so long overdue. A constant explanation on set is always necessary. "Really, it's coming, soon". One thing you omitted in your "build" was the EVF/LCD port (or did I miss it)......
 
I'm 100% for this module - killer for us right now would be a full HD 1080 ProRes option. We shoot LOTS of interview footage that will NEVER be screened 4K and currently use C300's which is a frustration!

One reason Alex has been adopted by the broadcast world is the 1080 ProRes output - add this to Epic/Scarlet and we have one less client objection to worry about.

I'm also wondering if this function could be added internally when RED carry out the Dragon upgrades? It should also open up the option of even higher frames - look at the F55 for example.

Scott
 
Scott Brown said:
One reason Alex has been adopted by the broadcast world is the 1080 ProRes output - add this to Epic/Scarlet and we have one less client objection to worry about.
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...and now it's 2013 and they should have shot 4k raw and made the 1080p from them. 4k content will be sought after soon, especially cult television series...

RAW workflow is not exactly rocket science. Are people so lazy that they choose Alexa over Epic just to make sure they don't have to import a .r3d file to their timeline? In the not too distant future, it will really not make any practical difference if there are debayered images or raw files in the timeline... many users already edit directly with .r3d files in Premiere and FCX without a rocket.

When that day arrives, will producers still scream for 1080p quicktime recording?

Apple made a lot of good products by insisting on what their customers did and did not need, and being stubborn about it. When it comes to 4k and raw, I salute Red for the same persistence...

If shooting flat video is so important, why not use ENG camera systems built for that purpose?

I'm just asking...

If I had a say at Red, I would forget about adding support for recording flat video, and would find an elegant and cost efficient solution for realtime .r3d for both laptops and workstations... who would need flat video then? RAW files can act like 1080p flat video if you want...
 
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"Apple made a lot of good products by insisting on what their customers did and did not need, and being stubborn about it. When it comes to 4k and raw, I salute Red for the same persistence..."

I follow your argument in general terms even though I am not persuaded by it. But this is a very poor argument and you should consider its full implications. This is what led to the FCPX debacle. Do you really want to promote the "Apple Knows Best" strategy of communication as a path forward for Red?
 
Rob Castiglione said:
But this is a very poor argument and you should consider its full implications. This is what led to the FCPX debacle. Do you really want to promote the "Apple Knows Best" strategy of communication as a path forward for Red?
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Well, a year or so later, a lot of the features that went missing in the rewrite has been reimplemented and the the product is rapidly expanding on it's new super modern 64bit platform. FCX was a bold step, and I'm pretty sure it will end up as a far better program than FCP 7. Actually, FCX is a good example of the Apple strategy. They did the same with Quick Time X, OSX and the PowerPC to Intel transition. True innovation requires some brutal steps.
 
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