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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pro plasma vs Dreamcolor

Bruce Allen said:
Right right. But bear in mind that I was actually the SECOND colorist on that movie.

The first post house had a $100,000 calibrated Big Iron system but their grades sucked, so I got called in.

For the price and the project, I believe I gave them the best result possible.

Agreed if you are making a career as a colorist you want the high-end stuff. Part of just being professional.

But if you just want to make your own films and your trusted friends' films look awesome... you can ut together a system that is technically "good enough" - and beat a post house that invests too much in equipment and calibration and too little in people. And there are a ton of those places out there.

Not you of course, Mike - you do great work AND have a great infrastructure. Hence why I recommend folks to you despite all of our disagreements on Reduser :) Cheers!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com
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I agree with both Bruce and Mike.
Making sure you do due diligence in having the right equipment and workflows in place is crucial. Also, each project can be approached differently... depending on budget, equipment availability & location. I've worked in Kenya before and also on show string budgets. I've found that being creative technically is sometimes the only available option to delivering a solid product. I also really enjoy reading about people who have had to create their own devices to achieve their final result.

Color timing is all about the colorist's style in the end anyways. As long as everything is legal...
 
M Most said:
The next time you deal with a major network television program, for which you must turn around 3 to 4 hours of material in 4 different formats (some physically delivered and some electronically), all with double system sync sound, by 8AM every night for about 9 months, along with finishing that meets the technical and creative standards for network delivery with only about 2 days lead time, and can pull all of that off to the satisfaction of some of the most demanding cinematographers and producers in the world, let me know.

Making a decent living at one's chosen career does not make one a "bloodsucker." Not everything in this world is free, nor should it be. People who are good at what they do should be paid fairly for that skill if there is an audience that demands that level of talent and expertise. Making a living wage does not constitute sucking blood. Jim Jannard didn't make his billions by smugly telling everyone he could make stuff cheaper than everyone else. In fact, with Oakley he did exactly the opposite. That didn't make him a "bloodsucker," it made him a smart and successful businessman. I don't know where some people here get the idea that making money at one's job is something evil, or that charging a lower rate makes one better, because in my book, neither one is even close to being the truth. The reality of what major post houses accomplish every day seems to be lost on many people these days who have never experienced it and who have little to no clue what those facilities go through day in and day out. And that IS the truth.
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Mr. Most,

I was not talking about you, so sorry if you feel offended or singled out. In fact, I don 't even know you! Plus, you don't know me either. So I extend my sincere apologies. However, I really suggest that to have a civilized exchange of ideas and opinions we should not try to use so much hype and alarming worlds that one may think that the world is crumbling.

I have always be paid in a fair way. When I was an executive of corporate America, making $15K a month, plus all those great stock options, first class trips, etc, etc., I was compensated commensurate to my abilities, and to the margin of earnings of the products sold. So I do agree with you that one should be compensated based on our effort and talent put into our project and tasks. I 100% agree...

What I was trying to express, and again, sorry if you felt singled out, is that history has presented to all human kind an universal and unique fact: the ones that adapt survive. The ones that do not, ... well you know what happened to the dinosaurs.

When I refer to the bloodsuckings "whatever" I was referring to the ones that history has past by their life, and it seems that have not learn such universal lesson. That is caused, most of the times, by something called greed. And this is the rationale why I am saying this: the times of monopoly and keeping hostage the different human expression of art are OVER. YouTube, Vimeo, Vuze, ... just to mention a few.

Today (literally today) I can compete and win a bid to one of the non-adaptable houses. And it is not because of I am special; it is because of them. I offered proved talent, flexibility and the one-on-one service they have elected not to have as part of their formula. Mostly because of what you described so well on your first paragraph.

It was a fair fight (actually, my bid was higher), but they were not able to show adaptability; again, because of greed and trying to do 1,000 things at a time with an OK result. I offered to do what I can really manage, with a more satisfied client because my end-product is more that just OK.

And this is happening all over the world. Some people may be realizing this now, but with the globalization, more people are exposed to what has been normal in other parts of the big-blue-marble, and they are astonished!

Well, did not need or wanted to be so extensive, but this is a subject that is so close to my heart because I have been on both sides of the fence, that I think I should share with others.

Again, it was not really meant to talk about you personally at all, so my apologies if in any way you felt that indeed it was my intention. And this is also a truth. :grouphug:

Respectfully,
 
I don't usually weigh in on these discussions. I don't find them particularly useful, but yet here I am...

I'm sometimes surprised on this board about the lack of knowledge and/or dismissiveness of the existing industry. The truth is that many of us on this board work on many sides of the line. I work on indie films, small and large budget spots. I know many talented people on all sides of the line. Just because you work at a post-house, doesn't make you some mindless dinosaur.

It is true that the industry is changing in many ways. Everyone must adapt. And technology is making it easier for more people to compete on a level playing field (at least technologically). But there are many practices that developed over time in this industry that shouldn't just be thrown out. It would actually serve us better if more people were aware of the rules before we go breaking them. Then you know which ones you can break and which you maybe shouldn't.

As for reference monitors, the point of a reference isn't that they are the only monitors that can make things look pretty (or to hold my clients hostage to high hourly rates), but to give you a benchmark that everyone can agree on. I have 6 different screens I look at on a regular basis during the day: my LG plasma, my iPad, iPhone, Apple Cinema Display, a Dreamcolor, and another Samsung Plasma. The LG is beautiful, but the reds are very different from the Samsung. I love my iPad, but it shows colors that the LG doesn't. And I have 2 Apple monitors that are slightly different (even after hardware calibration). The point of a reference monitor is to give me a reference point (and if it is calibrated, it is the same reference point that Mike is looking at on his monitor at his facility). When I tell him the reds look a little off, we're looking at the same thing.

One of the reasons we can charge higher rates is because we have a pipeline that ensures that what the client sees is what it looks like on-air. That doesn't matter to everyone, but to many people it does. That is why many of the "dinosaur post-houses" continue to do very well. Yes, you can color correct on other set-ups, but especially as you start working as part of a larger pipeline, you need to make sure that you are all discussing the same thing.

We've got a Dreamcolor here. It's a great reference monitor. Easy to calibrate and looks great. But as others have said, it's small and doesn't have great off-axis response. I'd get a Dreamcolor as your reference monitor and a larger plasma for clients. Then you can do you best to make the plasma match the Dream Color.
 
IMHO, still the best recommendation!
The Dreamcolor is an excellent reference monitor for a single person and pretty cheap for a 10 bit hardware calibrated monitor. A plasma adjusted as close as possible will keep the client impressed, but if any discussion is coming up, the Dreamcolor should be consulted.
 
Uli Plank said:
IMHO, still the best recommendation!
The Dreamcolor is an excellent reference monitor for a single person and pretty cheap for a 10 bit hardware calibrated monitor. A plasma adjusted as close as possible will keep the client impressed, but if any discussion is coming up, the Dreamcolor should be consulted.
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Going to have to agree here. We have both. A Dreamcolor for me, plasma for clients. If getting a Dreamcolor, I would highly recommend an aja hdp2 to ensure you're setup and stay setup correctly. It takes some guess work out of it. I wrote about it here if you're interested:

http://library.creativecow.net/articles/garchow_jeremy/HP_DreamColor_CRT_Replacement.php

Yes, on the surface, it looks like it's just a computer monitor but it's much more. I had the opportunity to compare my Dreamcolor to a grade one FSI monitor the other day, and everything was looking great. The price and performance of the Dreamcolor is hard to beat in a 10bit monitor (your plasmas are all 8 bit by the way).

Jeremy
 
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I have BOTH:
*Dreamcolor connected to my RedRocket dual HD-SDI out and then into an AJA Hi-5 that brings it into the dreamcolor via HDMI

*Panasonic viera tc-p50vt25: connected to my Matrox MXO2 LE (i can calibrate it direct from the Matrox almost perfectly). So when coloring or working out of FCP i have what i would call almost perfect colors on my monitor. This is also 10bit HDMI viewing.

So my personal workstation consists of two 27" dells for real-estate: where i work on RCX & Storm and have my bins/finder pulled up; my working/color monitor is the Dreamcolor (or i can switch it out on and HDMI switcher to my Panasonic-but i typically only use the DC) where i run out of the red rocket card. After transcoding and light color work, i bring up the files in FCP and work on the big screen Panasonic via Matrox MXO2. I think it is the perfect in house Low Budget solution and I've had no problems or complaints about footage not being colored properly.
 
What about BOB?

What about BOB?

Sorry I know Ive used this title before :)
In regards to Dreamcolor, I noticed that no one was using BOB with their ROCKET?
Since we have one, is it still a safe bet to use the HDMI option or just go straight to the SDI ports?
Another question, is there any other displays that come close to the Dreamcolor?
 
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