Pro/Experienced HDR help needed!

[Danny Lingan]

Hello, all.

The advice and experience of you hardcore professionals is needed. Can you explain in what scenarios you would be using HDR on your future Red cameras? Or times when you could have used it?

Both everyday and special examples would be great. Photo examples would be sublime.

Areas of savings with regard to time, money, crew, kit, etc that could be had would be terrific also to include practicality with artistry.

But even short text examples are good.

I'll try to find some examples myself and add them here and I'd be open to suggestions or criticisms of what I put up. I'll also attempt to link to examples already on the boards.

I think you'll really help a lot of people unfamiliar with HDR.

Thanks!



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SOME REFERENCE LINKS - Please advise if you have recommendations

Adam Wilt's introduction to HDRx and EasyHDR mechanics and visual quality at Pro Video Coalition

Red's view of the importance of HDRx™™™ development.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Danny - just of the top of my head, I would mostly use the HDRx in exterior shots during bright daylight with harsh contrast and generally in situations where You can't control the light, such as wildlife and nature documentaries, night exterior shoots, etc... If You are shooting in a studio, or anywhere else where You as a DP can fully control the light, You may get away without it...

Peter

 

[Danny Lingan]

The famous Binions footage, with jpg taken from the footage provided by Red.

Image is ungraded and compressed, so download the already compressed clip if you must inspect already-compressed, beta footage.

And a similar view from another camera not in HDR (thanks to original poster Álex Montoya for linkage.)

This one has been picked over at the thread, so here is a quick synopsis.


See how well you can see the faces in the HDR shot? With the expanded DR we can see the actual faces as they take in the dazzling lights, both of which are exposed nicely. Consider that possibility if you were stealing shots guerrilla style in this situation where you would have no lighting to expose your boys as they take in the sights or in a similar situation when you have a great subject and background and little to zero control over the setting or where you must get in and out quickly but really want that shot.



Pan motion was wayyyy smooth compared to the strobe-y stuff you might expect. The MagicMotion is actually being raved about as one of the best aspects of Red's HDR and will be used even if the shot doesn't need the expanded latitude.

I believe Adam Wilt mentioned the details visible in the actual light bulbs at the CML screening.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Here are some situations where I would love to have the HDRx:

Peter

 

[Danny Lingan]

Danny - just of the top of my head, I would mostly use the HDRx™™™™™ in exterior shots during bright daylight with harsh contrast...

Thanks, Peter! You're always a wealth of information all over these boards.

I wonder if we'll be able to rescue some run-and-gun high noon shots with the added DR and a reflector versus dragging out a lot of light and grip.


In a post on your HDR poll thread on ScarletUser I was trying to basically explain the benefits of expanded dynamic range/latitude/f-stops using the example of Nicole Kidman boxing a pigment-challenged fellow in black shorts at noon. Detail in the shorts was necessary as was the expressions on their faces. Choose the highlights or choose the shadow detail, but you're going to need a lot more gear to capture them both without the HDR.


And great photo examples! People will think "those look so good, who needs HDR?" That street should would elevate to fantastic with a little more DR.

 

[Danny Lingan]

On Scarlet User, Guy Holt (with the handle nejuicer; handles are still allowed on Scarlet User) made a few great posts about using using HMIs in this thread. His posts over the 3 pages of the thread are a good intro to HMI.

I used a couple of the samples there and will do so in this thread because they're illustrative of common lighting challenges. Sorry for the repetition for those who saw the whole thread. I think these are particularly relevant to those on the nano-budget / frayed-shoestring budget scale of image making.

This seems like a straight-forward shot, huh? Beach pavilion where the producer wants the ocean and the talent exposed. Go to that thread to see more pics and read what it took to make a shot with natural lighting: 5 HMIs, generator and a lot of netting.

HDR would help in this scenario. I'm not saying that no lighting or grip would be necessary, but that expanded dynamic range could really bring down what was needed in lighting control (pronounced time, money, gear, crew) needed. (For the record, I'd rather have a well-equipped team make this happen than not.)

For the nano-budgeteers could you imagine shooting a beach scene with you, your sound guy and talent at some beach pavilion and wanting to get a beautiful exposure of the talent (say, the Swedish Bikini Team) and the gorgeous ocean behind them? And you have to do it before the lifeguard or local fun-police kick you out? Or your budget is already in the red and you can't afford the gear to get the shot? A little more DR would help dramatically.

Please correct my mistakes or inaccuracies.

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

We use HDRs for getting location shots. We can then project those HDRs onto Geometry which makes reflections much easier than multiple exposures for different objects.

Also when you're shooting background plates it's all but impossible to hold the shadows and the sky in the same exposure.

 

[Danny Lingan]

Thanks Gavin. HDR is really important in the VFX world. Could you give a quick specific example of the location work/geometry example for those who have no background in CGI?

I think background plates should be pretty well known to anyone planning on having greenscreen/bluescreen/chromakeying in their future projects. They're also used as background for 3D models - think Star Wars ships flying across a real environment.

There is a page of greenscreen resources at PVC for anyone who wants to learn about the process.

 

[jonnycom]

We've been doing a a lot of motion HDR over the last year, not every shot can benefit from more DR (like a properly lit scene) but when you have a impossible shot with no lights, it can be awesome. Here's an example we did....

http://vimeo.com/12828140

 

[Danny Lingan]

Cool rig, jonnycom and an excellent HDR example of an everyday situation.

Here's a Vimeo link showing the OmniRig Jonny used for that video from CineGear 2010.

 

[Phil Bates]

Danny, mostly daylight exterior scenic shots for me. Shots in a deep forest with patches of sunlight are extremely challenging without HDR.

P

 

[Gavin Greenwalt]

At the end is an example of using on set photography for the reflections. In this case the reflections in the windows of the shop and the sign.

http://vimeo.com/10621823

And here would be an example of why HDR environments are important. Both shaders are reflecting the same forested area but the reduced reflectivity of the blue teapot means it essentially needs an underexposed photo of the scene. But since most shaders aren't a single reflectivity you would have to blend between the two photos and do a lot of difficult math in the process. By comparison the shader is very simple with an HDR. You just sample the HDR image and then multiply the value by the reflectivity. So if the reflection ray returns "3.0" (super bright) and the reflectivity of that point is 10% then it returns 0.3 and if another area of the material reflects the same point in the photo but is 50% reflective it'll return 1.5 which would appear white. So from the same point you get both white and 30% gray.

 

[Uli Plank]

Whenever you were considering a graded ND until now…

 

[Danny Lingan]

Thanks, Phil. That dappled light can be pretty contrasty. I'm going to look for a photo example of that.

Gavin, the Vimeo example is a superb breakdown as are your tea pots. Thanks again for the expanded explanation.

Uli, thanks for bringing up the NDs. Dziga Vertov did Man with the Movie Camera, right? There's a guy who would prefer to go with less kit. He'd leave the mattebox and filters behind while he was running around with a box and sticks.

 

[Jannard]

You just might want to use HDRX in every situation if you want "Magic Motion".

Jim

 

[Danny Lingan]

Thanks for the input, Jim. I was going to hunt down some of those "Magic Motion" quotes that had been made in Adam Wilt's article and a couple other posts and put them here as well. [The bit about tracking off highlights was next.]

Looking forward to examples of the magic in action and any input the Red team could put in this thread to fill us in on what's to come with your flavors of HDR.

 

[Ryan E. Walters]

Here is where I would use HDR:
http://www.ryanewalters.com/Blog/files/PrepFor18.html

A couple of reference photos from the blog post: (Taken with my iPhone)

(Yes this last one is a poorly stitched together HDR image)

 

[Paul Leeming]

Definitely forest shots. These are shot with M-X with a view to holding the highlights:

With HDRx™ you could dig up to six stops deeper into the shadows whilst holding all the highlights in the same way!

Would have made these examples a lot easier to achieve! :laugh:

More examples and higher resolution samples from this shoot here.

Cheers,

Paul

 

[Kwan Khan]

Very informative
Thanks fellas

 

[Danny Lingan]

Ryan, thanks for adding that. I noted that stuff you posted and it was on my list to bring here. Those shots are especially illustrative with those meter readings.

And thanks to Paul for ending my need to search for a good sample of dappled light to which Phil Bates was referring at the top of the page. That project looks like a lot of fun to work on.