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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Prime Advice?

Ok... after much consideration and half a bottle of wine, I have decided to go with the Schneiders. If I was smart, I'd probably go with the RPP's, especially since I have the RPZ 17-50 already. But maybe I'm not so smart, maybe I'm more of a romantic. And the romance that an 18 blade iris can produce in its bokeh has captured my heart.... at least in my imagination.

CB
 
I found the xenars almost ridiculously huge.

CP2 had excellent build quality.

External focus on the xenars is annoying

Much heavier.

I'm in the same decision making process as you. No obvious answer.


Zeiss CP.2 RED Primes Schneider C-X Cooke Panchros
Min T-Stop 3.6, 2.9, 2.9, 2.1, 2.1, 1.5 1.8 1.9-2.1 2.8
Max T-Stop 22 22 16 22
Focus Throw, Degrees ? ? ? 300
Iris Throw, Degrees ? ? ? 75
ANSI S35 Field of View 69, 60, 52, 47, 38, 27, 16 NA, 62, 48, 33, 18, 17 71, 51, 38, 27, 18, 14 80, 62, 50, 34, 22, 17
Mount PL, EF PL PL, EF PL
Interchangeable Mount YES NO YES NO
# Iris Blades 14 ? 18 ?
Length (To lens mount), Inches 3.15” ?? (unbelievably I can’t find this) 8.4”, 6.5”, 6.5”, 6.5”, 6.5”, 6.5” 4.70”, 4.17”, 5.39”, 5.39”, 5.39”, 5.39”
Weight, Lbs 2.2 lbs 6.45, 6.16, 6.07, 4.53, 4.2, 4.39 TBD, 5.01, 4.85, 4.25, 4.35, 4.75 4.62, 4.18, 3.74, 3.30, 3.52, 3.52
Close Focus (Lens Front), Inches 8.8”, 6.8”, 3.8”, 6.8”, 8.8”, 14.8”, 35.8” 4”, 4”, 4”, 6”, 18”, 24” 4.6”, 4.5”, 6.5”, 7.5”, 11.5”, 19.5” 3”, 4”, 6”, 13”, 23”, 29”
Front Diameter 114mm 110mm 114 (18), 104 (others) 87mm
Breathing? ? ? “Virtually no” ?
Barrel Distortion? “Low” “Low” ?
Perspective Distortion? “Low” “Low” ?
Image Circle 36mm (FF) 30-32mm (S35) 30mm (S35) 30mm (S35)
Set: Color Matched? YES ? YES YES
Set: Consistent T-Stop? NO YES NO YES
Set: Consistent Size? YES NO YES YES, exception: length
Set: Consistent Gear Positions? YES ? YES
Set: Consistent Front Diameter? YES YES YES, exception: 18mm YES
Set: Focal Lengths 18, 21, 25, 28, 35, 50, 85, 100 18, 25, 35, 50. 85, 100 18, 25, 35, 50, 75, 95 18, 25, 32, 50, 75, 100
External Focus? NO NO YES NO
 
Christopher Barrett said:
Ok... after much consideration and half a bottle of wine, I have decided to go with the Schneiders.... But maybe I'm not so smart, maybe I'm more of a romantic. And the romance that an 18 blade iris can produce in its bokeh has captured my heart.... at least in my imagination.

CB
Click to expand...

Lenses, especially for owners, are like music instruments a very personal choice. And while you are working with them you may start to find an other option more attractive. Then it's time for change. But somewhere you have to start. And the Schneiders are an inventive choice for sure.

I shot my whole filmmaking life mostly with the Zeiss SuperSpeeds. Finally with my RedOne I bought a prestine set (when the redicolous hype was in its infancy). They have many downsides and some big pros. But they certainly don't produce any distracting CA. The next Primes I will purchase will be Cooke Panchros. In many ways they are the opposite to the SuperSpeeds.

Hans
 
Hans von Sonntag said:
Lenses, especially for owners, are like music instruments a very personal choice..

Hans
Click to expand...

Absolutely right Hans,

I fil exactly the same ;)

My favorites in Still Photography have always been the Leicas, but end up shooting for many years now,
with Canon "L" series glass, do to choice of System, and moving back to Leica with the new S2.

For Cine lenses, I really never felt that great about any lens till the Master Primes came along,
the Ultra Primes are okay, but just didn't' do much for me.

The Red Pro Primes, were simply a Love at first site all over again as it was for the Master Primes,
and currently the RPP's are my best lens of choice, however I do miss the speed of the MP's and for this
I absolutely felt in Love once more with yet an other set of lenses, just this time it tucked me back to the origins, yeah the Leica Summilux C lenses, just amazingly well build, fast, and all share the same
exact Build characteristics, same 95mm front element circumference, for ease of interchanging them
with MB's and other accessories, as well as are not heavy at al, and also are all the asme length,
which makes them also very easy to play with interchangeably with a swing away MB, not having
to adjust any Rails distance etc.

So while the RPP's are the love child, at some point the Leica SC will likely take over our cameras, especially in S3D.
 
Christopher Barrett said:
Hey People,

I'm planning to pull the trigger on a set of primes for my R1 in about two weeks. I figure on spending between 25 and 40k and my thoughts were...

Schneider Cine-Xenar's Inexpensive, new symmetrical design nice for digi, lot's o iris blades for nice bokeh

Red Pro Primes Also Inexpensive and the 18 is available... nice glass from what I hear.

MKIII Speeds Pricier but FAST, older design more likely to give CA?

All thoughts appreciated. I'm currently working with an RPZ 17-50 and a couple ZF's. I could also talk myself into just sticking with the RPZ so any thoughts on that versus primes from experienced users would also be great.

Thanks and Happy New Year!
CB
Click to expand...

You should also check out the lumatech illumina S35s. T1.3 superspeed and less than $30K and smaller and lighter than some of the others mentioned. The new mechanics are pretty nice.

I'm not a cine lens expert but they seem very nice. Gregory is a neighbor of mine here in Weston, FL (Ft. Lauderdale) - doesn't have a huge marketing presence but are worth checking out. Call me and maybe I can get you a discount :smile:
 
The Schneiders are so new that you'll be on the bleeding edge, and you may bleed...

I think I'd contact Mitch at Able and see if he can do a demo for you. It would be worth the trip to NYC to audition a $22,500 investment before you bought it. Would you buy a new car without driving it first?

From a listed feature PoV the Schneiders do look really good. The one minor drawback is the lens growth while racking. I'd contact the manufacturer of the follow focus you plan to use to see of they will make a gear wide enough to accomodate this.

Bob
 
Bob Gruen said:
The one minor drawback is the lens growth while racking. I'd contact the manufacturer of the follow focus you plan to use to see of they will make a gear wide enough to accomodate this.
Click to expand...

I believe it´s only the front of the lens that expands, the focus gears stay put. (?) Still an issue with matteboxes.

The other real drawback of these lenses is the inconsistent aperture. 18mm T1.9, 25mm T2.2, 35mm T2.1, 50mm T2.0... just looks silly. They´re almost there, so couldn´t they just have put in the extra effort to make them all the same?
 
Wow, the xenars have external focus? That right there is a deal killer for me. I really like to clamp my mattebox to the lens, even when on rods. When building my Canon Lens set, I went through the same thing. Trying to get the right lenses for under $5000, and the internal focus was a major factor for me.
 
They barrel a little, they're big and heavy and the apertures vary just enough to be annoying and still I can't seem to talk myself out of these lenses. Maybe it's because my Schneider 43mm Apo-Digitar is my most favorite lens in the world...

I could almost talk myself into the Panchros... almost.

I should open that bottle of Scotch my assistant gave me for Christmas.
CB
 
I was seriously considering them as well, but just didn't know enough about them. From the videos I saw, and the specs they are certainly intriguing. Are there any other PL sets out there in the $20k-23k range new?
 
I got a demo set of the Cine Xenar's from Able and shot a short film with them this summer. It was all daytime exteriors with available light and bounce but they did a good job.

The lens barreling is what killed me. My M-motor/Bartech was just barely able hold the focus threads through many focus pulls even with the widest gear and then I hit the filters on the matte box more then once. The bellows just could not contain the barreling. I also had the irises bind on me a couple times but they easily worked themselves out. The mechincals just did not seem to be what I was expecting from a pro set of lenses. This may have been a very early production set and we were about the second people to try them so hopefully they have worked out some of those kinks.

I am so glad a demoed them first. I had fallen in love with the look of these lenses at NAB but the reality of working with them is what changed my mind. Don't get me wrong, they make a beautiful image, warm and organic, but the mechanical trade off was too much for me to drop $28,000 on them.

I think I'm going to buy the RPPs after renting them; solid mechanics and sharp image. Though I would like to try out the Illumina S35s if I can find a set to try near Orlando.

Mike
 
Thanks for chiming in, Mike. That certainly puts a damper on my Schneider thoughts. I did have some concern with the build since this is their first entry into Cine lenses. I'm also considering the Panchros and still the RPP's of course. Ugh. My head hurts.
 
RPPs +1

RPPs +1

After using RPP, I'd strongly recommend them. Large and heavy, but optically very pleasing lenses. Consistent size and solid build, fast aperture, sharp and modern optics. Certainly best value for money, if you ask me.
 
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