Prepare to decide...

[number6]

I did, but got a serious bad taste in my mouth. You should see a doctor... with respect, of course :calm:

My comment was a bit harsh, I'll admit. But I felt you were commenting about a situation you knew nothing about and was just trying to get that point over. Should have counted to ten first.

 

[number6]

Hey I think home movies are pretty cool...especially in West Texas biker bars.

I love fly on the wall cinema. Red could be the ultimate realization of that classic aesthetic. Don't let the naysayers knock ya.

Hah! Yeah! That was actually shot at a surprise birthday party for a beautiful young lady whose grandmother ouned the bar. This was done before she arrived and the guy doing the dance (incidentally, a really nice guy but like the marines... "No better friend, no greater enemy") was a little wound up and decided to let his creativity loose. It's really a working class family type bar for the most part, as evidenced by the little girl in attendance with her parents. When I saw it on the computer, it just screamed "Zorba the Greek!" at me, so I added it.

 

[Michael Hastings]

Does me no good as my lenses have no aperture ring. All my plans and a couple of recent (expensive) equipment acquisitions revolve around the Birger Nikon mount. I won't be able to use the birger for focus on older lenses and can't use the RED Nikon to control aperture on newer ones.

I'm willing to go ahead and pay the total, but I just want my shipment (and warranty clock) delayed.

I would seriously suggest you either return or sell the newer Nikon stuff and go Canon and you can have Birger Canon mount within weeks. Nikon who knows? And you can use your older nikons on EF mount with a $20 adapter.

 

[number6]

Does me no good as my lenses have no aperture ring. All my plans and a couple of recent (expensive) equipment acquisitions revolve around the Birger Nikon mount. I won't be able to use the birger for focus on older lenses and can't use the RED Nikon to control aperture on newer ones.

I'm willing to go ahead and pay the total, but I just want my shipment (and warranty clock) delayed.

Eclaire, your request sure sounds reasonable to me if that's any solace. One would think they could just go around that (paid for) camera on a shelf and then come back and get it when you ask for it, but I have no knowledge about how things work at RED, so what do I know?

 

[Tony Lorentzen]

My comment was a bit harsh, I'll admit. But I felt you were commenting about a situation you knew nothing about and was just trying to get that point over. Should have counted to ten first.

Hey no problem, man

- I know where you're coming from. Buying the RED isn't exactly like reaching for pennies for me and my little business either. I'm just tired of waiting and got a little pissed after NAB when a lot of fence-sitters (love that term) decided to take delivery, which caused my camera to be delayed further. I've been running like crazy to make the extra money to buy the RED (and accessories) because I have a feeling that I'll be a good career move. My comment was actually more directed towards rental companies and larger production companies that are holding off because they're being indecisive about the RED.

 

[Ben Holmes]

Hah! Yeah! That was actually shot at a surprise birthday party for a beautiful young lady whose grandmother ouned the bar. This was done before she arrived and the guy doing the dance (incidentally, a really nice guy but like the marines... "No better friend, no greater enemy") was a little wound up and decided to let his creativity loose. It's really a working class family type bar for the most part, as evidenced by the little girl in attendance with her parents. When I saw it on the computer, it just screamed "Zorba the Greek!" at me, so I added it.

Just so you're clear (since you say you're not on your website) if you added the music to this video, it's a breach of copyright if it's not cleared. If it was on in the background and you filmed someone dancing to it (performing) it's a breach of copyright. Hope that helps.

Ben

 

[Peter Majtan]

Just so you're clear (since you say you're not on your website) if you added the music to this video, it's a breach of copyright if it's not cleared.

YES

If it was on in the background and you filmed someone dancing to it (performing) it's a breach of copyright.

NOT

(just my humble opinion...)

 

[Peter Majtan]

I have filmed many events in our theatre where the performing group used commercial music for their performance. I am contracted to film the event - I am not breaching any copyrights. They are performing publicly to the copyrighted music in front of paid customers. It is them who needs to worry about the copyright...

 

[Martin Weiss]

Well, whoever is the rights-holder of the video will have to worry if s/he has any plans for releasing their film. Best to replace the music with some you hold the rights for.

 

[Peter Majtan]

Nothing to worry about... Just look at it this example: Major US commercial TV channel has a "live" interview with someone at a disco. In the background You can clearly hear pumping some well know tune (lets say Right Here, Right Now by Fat Boy Slim). Your live interview is broadcasted in the commercial show with this song in the background. Are they in breach of copyright? No way, no how... It is the disco that was responsible for having the rights to perform that song in a public place...

 

[number6]

Just so you're clear (since you say you're not on your website) if you added the music to this video, it's a breach of copyright if it's not cleared. If it was on in the background and you filmed someone dancing to it (performing) it's a breach of copyright. Hope that helps.

Ben

Your right, but I did say

Be advised that the "Nowhere But Betty Lou's" video contains excerpts from A&M records Zorba the Greek, by
Herb Alpert. We believe we are within the limits of fair usage, although this is a murky area subject to legal
interpretation. Once you view it, we think you will agree it is essential to the video.

So, while I "think" I'm within the limits of fair usage (to my knowledge, there has never been an exact "set length" of the music used to define fair usage)

Besides, this is for entertainment only and not for profit. I give credit to the music maker and if I had ever been contacted by A&M Records or Herb Alpert, I would have taken it doun immediately. It is my hope that I gave free advertisement to one of my all-time favorite trumpet players. I just wish I could have worked "Lonely Bull" into the piece, because I love that song. It haunts to this day.

Hope this puts you at ease about my intent.

 

[number6]

Hey no problem, man

- I know where you're coming from. Buying the RED isn't exactly like reaching for pennies for me and my little business either. I'm just tired of waiting and got a little pissed after NAB when a lot of fence-sitters (love that term) decided to take delivery, which caused my camera to be delayed further. I've been running like crazy to make the extra money to buy the RED (and accessories) because I have a feeling that I'll be a good career move. My comment was actually more directed towards rental companies and larger production companies that are holding off because they're being indecisive about the RED.

This is what happens when you have "Brothers in the Chase" (you and I and all the others scrambling to get our cameras) competing for the available product. Things are said in the heat of the competition, but after we all get our cameras, the competition is forgotten and we indeed raise our glasses of beer as in your emoticon, as members of the initiated into the RED ouners club.

to you tlorenzo

(OBTW... it looks like my stars may just barely align... sorry you will not be getting your camera one slot sooner

 

[Ben Holmes]

Your right, but I did say

Be advised that the "Nowhere But Betty Lou's" video contains excerpts from A&M records Zorba the Greek, by
Herb Alpert. We believe we are within the limits of fair usage, although this is a murky area subject to legal
interpretation. Once you view it, we think you will agree it is essential to the video.

So, while I "think" I'm within the limits of fair usage (to my knowledge, there has never been an exact "set length" of the music used to define fair usage)

Besides, this is for entertainment only and not for profit. I give credit to the music maker and if I had ever been contacted by A&M Records or Herb Alpert, I would have taken it doun immediately. It is my hope that I gave free advertisement to one of my all-time favorite trumpet players. I just wish I could have worked "Lonely Bull" into the piece, because I love that song. It haunts to this day.

Hope this puts you at ease about my intent.

Not wishing to get horribly off topic, but I don't want someone to see your video and get you into trouble. Grammy award winning composer Douglas Spotted Eagle posted a very good article about this - here's a couple of answers to commonly asked questions:

"Q: If the music is from a bar that pays ASCAP or BMI, I can leave it in the background of my video.

FALSE. If the music constitutes any organized or significant element of the video work, and the work is not documentary or news-gathering in nature, you may not leave ancillary background music in a video feature, unless the music is of a significant difference in level, ie; you are doing an interview with someone in a bar, and the music is not heard at a level that would be considered near the volume level or importance of the dialog and the music cannot be removed from the video recording without jeopardizing the dialog. If the project is a feature for instance, it’s expected that the director/producer has control over the audio heard in the background. Regardless, to use music from a tavern or social hall that pays ASCAP, BMI, or SESAC licensing fees, is a violation of copyright laws because the tavern/social hall does not have a sync license to synchronize video with the audio, nor is their license to play the audio transferable to a third party. Paying ASCAP/BMI/SESAC fees on your own does not grant a sync license to synchronize video with audio."

" Q: I shoot a lot of dance recitals and then sell the videos to the parents. The dance instructor has since informed me that her dance choreography is copyrighted and I can't sell the videos without paying her a royalty and obtaining her permission. She says I'm covered for recording the music and I believe her because the dance studio has an ASCAP sticker on the window.

The dance instructor is right in saying that the dance choreography is copyrighted. She is wrong in saying that you are covered for the music because she pays ASCAP or BMI fees. ASCAP and BMI cannot and do not issue sync licenses. Unless the music being danced to is Work For Hire composition, you cannot make reproductions of the dance recital, period, without a sync license issued by the copyright holder or their representatives. (A hint; find the tempo/beat of the music, and using ACID, Soundtrack, or a non-linear editor that allows for beat marking, and insert a music library song instead. Then both you and the dance instructor should be happy that you have a copyrightable product that does not violate the copyrights of others) ".



In this case, not only have you added the music, but even if you hadn't, it is a "significant element" in your video. Here's a link to the whole article (copied from another site actually - can't find the original link, so he can sue me probably :nerd: ):

[EDIT: can't post link to 'rival' bovine video website - sorry REDuser] - so here's a final quote:

"Who benefits from Fair Use?

You do. Society does. Specifically, Fair Use can never apply to a commercial venture of any kind. Fair Use provisions are in place to provide access and public display for purposes of:

# Criticism
# Education
# Commentary
# News Reporting
# Scholarship
# Research
# Parody


This doesn’t mean that you can use “Thank God it’s Friday” as the theme song for your high school yearbook that you sell to the student body for costs or give away to students at taxpayer or school fee expense. It also does NOT allow the showing of "Lord of the Rings" as a Friday bonus to classes that have done well in their schoolwork. In fact, the law is specific on this particular issue. Showing copyrighted video for purposes of entertainment at church or school functions, whether admission was paid or not, is illegal.

It DOES mean that if I want to duplicate and stream a small section of a song for purposes of demonstrating my point in this article, I can do so as it’s part of commentary. It also means that if I want to stream a selection of Marilyn Manson’s* lyrics to demonstrate how dirty words can now be heard on public airwaves, I can do so as a criticism, news report, or commentary.

Fair Use also permits schools to record news shows such as CNN and other news reporting broadcasts but the recordings are only permitted for 10 days following the broadcast. Without specific permission, recordings must be erased 10 school days following the broadcast. (Some educational shows such as "School House Rock" offer "enlightened" rights that allow for up to three years archival. Professional Librarians are trained to be aware of these laws and will erase tapes accordingly.)

Fair Use is an extremely complex maze, but the predominant intent of Fair Use is to allow for social benefit of the masses without impinging on the rights of the copyright holder. Fair Use in itself is a monster novel in it’s presentation, so only the slight surface descripion is mentioned here. Fair Use almost never applies in a corporate, wedding, documentary, or feature film setting. "


. Whether you are doing it for fun, profit or charity makes no difference. I don't personally mind what you put on your website (and I wasn't trying to make a big thing about it, really) but someone will. Have a look at the end about what constitutes fair use.

Sorry RED users - back to normal programming I hope.

Kind regards,

Ben

 

[number6]

http://forums.http://www.teenink.co...ays/IHateCows.html.net/thread/8/988559#990371

I think you (and a couple of other posters) may find it instructive. Whether you are doing it for fun, profit or charity makes no difference. I don't personally mind what you put on your website (and I wasn't trying to make a big thing about it, really) but someone will. Have a look at the end about what constitutes fair use.

Sorry RED users - back to normal programming I hope.

Kind regards,

Ben

Ben, I see your post as simply pointing to my video as an instructional point of reference, and I approve. And the next time I go to my website I will probably take it doun, or sooner if A & M records or Herb Alpert contact me. Certainly before getting my RED and shooting frames for profit. (Will probably take doun the "Raegan's Naughty Goat" one too, even though I looped the music myself.)

At any rate, a very useful posting.

 

[Ben Holmes]

Ben, I see your post as simply pointing to my video as an instructional point of reference, and I approve. And the next time I go to my website I will probably take it doun, or sooner if A & M records or Herb Alpert contact me. Certainly before getting my RED and shooting frames for profit. (Will probably take doun the "Raegan's Naughty Goat" one too, even though I looped the music myself.)

At any rate, a very useful posting.

That's exactly the spirit in which it was intended - so thank you for taking it as such. Making video or movies for profit is a copyright minefield, and one I have to navigate every day. I even have to tell my corporate clients to get a PRS licence to put "royalty-free" music on their websites at £50 a year....

Ben