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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Premiere Vs. Final Cut

Had to way in here, Adobe came and showed us the beta red plug-in for Premiere, and AE. It was as close to flawless as you can get with software in the development phase. It was fantastic. I think Premiere just grew-up and will be a player in high-end finishing. I think Premiere, has always gotten a bad rap as a wedding video tool. Things are changing...
 
adobeone said:
Had to way in here, Adobe came and showed us the beta red plug-in for Premiere, and AE. It was as close to flawless as you can get with software in the development phase. It was fantastic. I think Premiere just grew-up and will be a player in high-end finishing. I think Premiere, has always gotten a bad rap as a wedding video tool. Things are changing...
Click to expand...

As a long time FCP editor, and more recent AE compositor (it's clearly a superior tool to Motion - and you only get 'realtime' in Motion for simple projects, with quicker RAM previews in AE for more complex work) I think you may be right.

Adobe have capitalised on a lengthy period of ZERO progress from Apple, a situation I suspect will not last forever - I predict a fully rewritten FCS released in April to run under Snow Leopard - but dynamic link and a GUI that doesn't make me puke anymore goes a long way to helping. I'm also amazed by the speed of Premiere - but I still prefer the FCP interface for basic editing.

Don't expect Apple to lie down and take it for much longer - reports of FCS's death have been greatly exaggerated... There's a lot of frustrated developers hiding behind NDAs right now.

Ben
 
amrrahmy said:
biased pc guys, okay:

dynamic link is the sad attempt to try to link premiere with ae or any sad attempt to link different adobe products that where not even adobe products from the start and not really build or integrated for that purpose, it doesn't happen, ae stuff needs rendering either in ae or premiere or whatever other application, passing the rendering job to another application doesn't mean there is no rendering.
...just to put that in prespective.... if u do something in motion u can preview it in motion in realtime, so there is no rendering, that means u can actually see what you are doing and there is no rendering, that's not the case in ae, u need to render inside ae just to be able to preview your work.

as for speededit and (liquid?), even if you dont have to render in speededit, still the fcp interface will make you edit faster, alot faster.

dont know how you can argue something so obvious, but tell me what mixed formats can premiere do realtime that fcp cant, and when do u use video with alpha channel, cuz i think would have to make the video, and remove a portion to/or add the alpha information in the video in the first place that would put the video in the middle of the project not at the start and makes rendering a normal state of affairs, and i won't even say how fast an image takes to render.

also working in fcp is totally different than premiere, where fcp is stable, premiere is more like a russian roulette.

and i used premiere alot in the past i used premire 2 and cs3 allot and i have tried premiere cs4, and i used an older version of avid, i only liked avid cuz it was controlled with a smooth controller surface that i liked, i like tablets more thou.

but premiere, or speededit are not even runners in nle apps., if am cutting something on pc i would use virtual dub and not premiere if i can.
i miss some stuff about directx but speed in nle is not one of them.
Click to expand...

Burnt any Blu rays lately?

Let me make something clear...
I am editing a 4k RAW short in Ppro CS3.....and in 4k on the timeline
Final cut cannot do 4k....can it....hmmm
I am also in 12bit RGB....final cut....limited to 10 right.
Color also is 2k right......
I am grading in color finesse at 4k.....

If you would rather cut in virtual dub then premiere...then no one can clearly take you seriousely....although maybe virtualdub can do 4k.....
how many longform project have you cut in virtual dub????

Happy youtubin

Final cut is an awsome program....but for a Red based studio....without access to scratch,it's not as convienient a solution. Whereas with Ppro and cineform, and the Adobe suite, you are good end to end for full 4k.

For the final cut diehards it is quite capable, and is a great package....so you final cut users out there, don't be offended by my nitpicking...
 
dynamic link is the sad attempt to try to link premiere with ae or any sad attempt to link different adobe products that where not even adobe products from the start and not really build or integrated for that purpose,
Click to expand...

not even adobe products from the start huh....

you do realize final cut was written by Adobe employees on contract to Macromedia.....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final_Cut_Pro
read the history

and color....you think apple wrote that?
motion....ever hear of chalice....
logic.....

apple has hardly written any apps....they buy existing ones and mash them together
 
not sure you understand what nle does exactly, so you dont get the requirements needed.

also it's not 12bit rgb, 12bit rgb means 12bit in every channel, that's not the case.
also exporting 2k from fcp would give you better image quality compared to the 4k, or what you think is 4k anyway.
what does color finesse has to do with premiere?
 
also it's not 12bit rgb, 12bit rgb means 12bit in every channel, that's not the case.
Click to expand...
12 bit cinform 444
or 12 bit cineform RAW

you do realize what that means don't you??? a professional editor such as yourself.....

http://www.cineform.com/products/TechNotes/Red-Prospect4K.htm

also exporting 2k from fcp would give you better image quality compared to the 4k, or what you think is 4k anyway
Click to expand...

exporting 2k is better then 4k.....
then 720p must be even better...thanks for the tip

I guess i'll sell my red and get another HVX....

maybe I can sell the Adobe suite and get Virtual Dub since it's free.....
 
wow, it doesnt matter where you put it, the camera is not doing 12bit in every channel, if you have an 8 bit image and you put it in a 16 bit file, it's still an 8bit image, if it was 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 or whatever and you put it in 4:4:4 it doesnt make it a 4:4:4(that's not referring to red)
it's not 4k it's saved as 4k where it's more like 3.2 that would go to 2k in the downsizing for better results, so it's more like 2k to begin with to get the best quality.

another hvx?
 
if you dont know what your talking about stop reciting the technical information on the boxes, it doesnt make you look smart, it makes it worse
 
I predict an explanation that 8 bit is better then 12 bit anyway

happy youtubin
 
it's doing half the bits in the two channels.
10rgb that's 30 bit total for the slow people makes better colors specially in low light and bright situations, where the lack of color even compare to 8bit rgb, makes color shifts in the compensation. if that gets over your youtubehead dont worry, other stuff did in the past too.
 
it's doing half the bits in the two channels.
Click to expand...

bit depth is how color is represented

it dosn't matter on the bayer sampling at all

a 1 pixel sensor could be 12 bit, in that color

your confusing sampling (4:2:2.....4:4:4) with bit depth

you can have files from say hd cam that are 3:1:1 8 bit
or hd cam SR that are 4:4:4 10 bit or 4:2:2 10 bit

Red happens to be 4:4:4 12 bit

some people(yourself included) confuse the bayer sampling (2 times as many green as red or blue)....with color sampling

you just took it a step further and confused it with bit depth as well
 
Graeme Nattress said:
I strongly disagree about calling a sensor a 4:2:0, as not only is it bad terminology for where it was designed to be used for Y'CbCr chroma sub-sampling, but absolutely does not apply to a Bayer pattern sensor, and indeed does not apply to any sensor configuration.

Graeme
Click to expand...

only Graeme though.....
 
dude please, any color assumption is not real color, that means it's not really 4:4:4 that the first fact.
dont argue with it, if it's made up it means it's not there that's what less than 4:4:4 does and that's what this camera does and poorly i might add. so it's not 4:4:4 to begin with
it's not 12 bit rgb either if the information is not there, in all channels or if it's made up, it's the same thing.
 
what it actually is and what it was designed for are different subjects, this camera doesn't have an iso range(or whatever you would call it, luminous or light change), it's a couple of steps darker with a fixed iso, and the nearst clipping point known to a camera, and is in the worst top 10 cameras in shadow noise and artifacts, that's reality. no matter how many people say it you are still not willing to accept it.
 
no i totally agree....

I just didn't realize it wasn't 4:4:4...I feel cheated kinda

why advertise it at 12 bit?
 
it's doing half the bits in the two channels.
10rgb that's 30 bit total for the slow people makes better colors specially in low light and bright situations, where the lack of color even compare to 8bit rgb, makes color shifts in the compensation
Click to expand...

so doing the math 12 bits green
and then only half for red and blue....meaning 6 each right...

so like 24 bits total....not the 36 i said.....

i see what your saying

well seeing that I was wrong about so much....:poster_oops:

assuming that 4k downsampled was better, and assuming the camera was 444 12 bit, I question why I bothered with cineform at all

I could have saved $2000(that's the price of cineform 4k) and just used adobe in 8 bit mode....(10 bit must still be a little better)

maybe I could trade in PPro for final cut
 
What are you guys on about?

12-bit is luma precision, it helps define (potential) dynamic range, it doesn't matter if it is bayer, 4:2:0, 3:1:1 or 4:4:4, luma precision is the most import factor, particularly after you have more that HD resolution. A bayer sensor when developed, resolves more than 4:2:0 or 4:2:2 at the sensor resolution, while not resolving to 4:4:4, you need 4:4:4 to store all the information of the developed image (perferrable at 10 or 12-bits per channel.)
 
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