Premiere and Film

[Benjamin Rowland]

I know that FCP and MC can handle a workflow that involves material originated on 35mm film, but can Premiere be used for an offline / online edit that involves film? And could it handle a workflow on a project that uses film material and Red material within the same timeline?

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

well, negatives..
you can export edls with timecode then must have another tool translate this to film edgecode based on the telecine's report.. that's offline..
I'm not sure what do you mean by online.. when you want to mix different footage you'll need an intermediate, long ago, it was usually CRI (Color Reversal Intermediate), today we use DI (Digital Intermediate) which will incorporate that all your film material must be scanned to digital files (mostly .dpx).. Online, is working on thoose scanned high resolution files.. PPro does this part very well .. offline, maybe you mean editing in telecined material with matched code then re-scan only the parts that you'll need for the final film?
anyway, if you wanna go the offline route, then you should know how are you going to cut your negative, are you going to use automated cutting systems? traditional cutting? are you going to roll all your film rolls inside a scanner and scan only the parts you need..
translating timecoded edls to edgecoded edls is a simple task, with some database knowladge maybe you can do it on Excel or Access, just converting different numbering system, but, I have never noticed this feature on PPro..
also with some film cameras and telecine machines, you can record timcode on the film its self, which means no need for translating edls, just roll no. and in-camera timecode.. but, also the scanner must be equiped to read in-camera timecode from the film negative..

 

[Marc Wielage]

Premiere would not be my first choice, if I was asked by an editor before a film-based project was about to happen.

What could be done (but it would be time-consuming) would be to consult with the telecine house prior to the start of production and ask them if they've dealt with this in the past. At worst, you could just do the off-line edit with burned-in film keykode and roll numbers next to the video timecode numbers, and then have an assistant manually write them all down to create a selects list. This kind of thing was done a long time ago, prior to Cinema Tools and similar software add-ins for FCP and Avid.

Bottom line, though, I think you'd be a lot better off with Final Cut Pro.

BTW, a small correction: CRIs were only used for release printing, and typically only in the 1970s and early 1980s. It was a bad, bad, bad format done to avoid spending money on the regular IP/IN stage. Totally obsolete today. Also, edge timecode for film was really only used by Aaton for sound syncing; it never became widespread in LA. There were good and bad issues with it, but it had no bearing on negative conforming or scanning.

 

[David McGavran]

Premiere would not be my first choice, if I was asked by an editor before a film-based project was about to happen.

What could be done (but it would be time-consuming) would be to consult with the telecine house prior to the start of production and ask them if they've dealt with this in the past. At worst, you could just do the off-line edit with burned-in film keykode and roll numbers next to the video timecode numbers, and then have an assistant manually write them all down to create a selects list. This kind of thing was done a long time ago, prior to Cinema Tools and similar software add-ins for FCP and Avid.

Bottom line, though, I think you'd be a lot better off with Final Cut Pro.

BTW, a small correction: CRIs were only used for release printing, and typically only in the 1970s and early 1980s. It was a bad, bad, bad format done to avoid spending money on the regular IP/IN stage. Totally obsolete today. Also, edge timecode for film was really only used by Aaton for sound syncing; it never became widespread in LA. There were good and bad issues with it, but it had no bearing on negative conforming or scanning.

Can you give me a feature list type reason why FCP would be a better choice than PPro? Honest question... What does FCP do that PPro doesn't in this workflow.

Thanks

Dave

 

[Tom.Wong]

how would the offline online process be any different? i assume the film scans would be taken into a DI as a form of uncompressed picture sequence. most likely DPX. you can easily create offline quicktimes for the edit, and with identical metadata applied to both the offline and online, the conform should be super easy. Unless you are talking about tape based workflow too, with HDCAM SR. I haven't used PP in tape based workflows before so I can't say anything about that, only done it with Avid, which is rock solid.

 

[Santiago Marti]

You can use DPX in premiere without the use of proxies. I think HDCAM SR is going away after the tsunami destroyed the only tape factory in the world.

 

[Maz Mawlawi]

Can you give me a feature list type reason why FCP would be a better choice than PPro? Honest question... What does FCP do that PPro doesn't in this workflow.

Thanks

Dave

Dave,

FCP has a Koolaid drinking option that makes you think it's the only editor you should ever use out there... Ok sorry for the sarcasm...but I would also like to know what would make FCP a better choice as I ironically think PPro would be better...

 

[Tom.Wong]

You can use DPX in premiere without the use of proxies. I think HDCAM SR is going away after the tsunami destroyed the only tape factory in the world.

i agree with all tape in general. the faster it gets a shotgun to the face the better. only thing tape that should be left is LTO IMHO.

working with DPX is great but not optimal for all solutions. it's just easier on the system, and you don't need as much, and as fast storage working with lower quality offline files. especially with suites with multiple editors working on the same project.

speaking of which, does premiere have any shared projects features with networked storage? I think that might be another missing piece of the puzzle right now for PP if it doesn't.

 

[shashbugu]

i agree with all tape in general. the faster it gets a shotgun to the face the better. only thing tape that should be left is LTO IMHO.

working with DPX is great but not optimal for all solutions. it's just easier on the system, and you don't need as much, and as fast storage working with lower quality offline files. especially with suites with multiple editors working on the same project.

speaking of which, does premiere have any shared projects features with networked storage? I think that might be another missing piece of the puzzle right now for PP if it doesn't.

for networked storage yes
for collaborative editing no, you would bneed pilotware or editshare.

 

[shashbugu]

Can you give me a feature list type reason why FCP would be a better choice than PPro? Honest question... What does FCP do that PPro doesn't in this workflow.

Thanks

Dave

DAvid I wouldnt bother trying to answer every misinformed user. Frankly you cant blame him, its not like the Adobe PPro manual has info on film based work flows like AE does. THe film setting are right there in the project preferences pane. 99.999% of film based editing is done online of line every NLE can do offline. Matching keycode data is a lab DI job, i dont see why I would even worry about it. labs will give you any data format or codec you are comfortable with. As long as you follow the Labs guidelines you will have no problems.

 

[Mohammed El Sharqawy]

edge timecode for film was really only used by Aaton for sound syncing; it never became widespread in LA. There were good and bad issues with it, but it had no bearing on negative conforming or scanning.

I don't live in LA so I don't know much about how its being used, though, long ago, in my film school, we had an ARRI 535 which had an in camera timecode module..

Can you give me a feature list type reason why FCP would be a better choice than PPro? Honest question... What does FCP do that PPro doesn't in this workflow.

Thanks

Dave

the idea of getting offline edl to conform it from film originated material needs an edl with edgecode, I'm not sure you can do this with premiere, the DI facility can copy the numbers from the burnt-in info, but, no automated negative cutting system would work.. or, they have to assemble a special edl from copying the numbers.. with premiere everything could be done but, how easy? FCP has a wide used tool that does this edl trick "Cinema Tools".. thats it.. apart from the koolaid drink ;-)

 

[shashbugu]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. When was the last time anyone ingested digibeta, D5, or HDSR 30p converting material from fiLm pull down converting it to 24p for editorial matching the edge code? Thats all cinema tools did. all DI these days stays at 24P, even your iphone can edit proxies these days and conform back to a film print.