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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Post Your Apple/Final Cut Based Workflows Here

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Osler Go

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Thought it would be great if we could collect together everyone's Apple/Final Cut workflows for Red in one thread. If this was already done forgive me, but would be great to see what others are doing so we can compare notes.

Do you use RedTrip? When do you use Redcine? Do you rely on another program entirely for your workflow? Do you convert all the footage first? Do the proxies work for you?

I know there are a lot of variations, and of course projects can determine extra steps but would be interesting to see.

For simplicity something along the lines of

First This > Then This > Then This Program > Finished

And a brief explanation of how this workflow works best for you.


Oz
HDOLOGY
 
Make new proxies with RedAlert (the cam generated ones don't see the .R3D files right) > convert to an easy to edit format, maybe ProRes but maybe DV > Edit in FCP > XML through RedTrip > RedCine pull (it's not a conform) to DPX files > DPX conform in Quantel eQ > Color grading on DaVinci

At least that's the plan!
 
Yeah i have been searching for a solid workflow on this forum for awhile just reading what everyone has to say and this is what i have gathered. Please let me know if i have this wrong or not, im still new to this!

I personally think the REDtrip is a great idea but when i tried a quick test it worked up until the point where i was trying to convert the Redcine.xml to a FCP.xml

I imported the "_H" files into my FCP system, it converted my sequence into ProRes HQ and i did my edit in that. I had a orange render bar and had to render it out everytime. Once i finished my quick edit i exported my XML into a seperate folder with my Redtrip Droplets and did the first step of Red Trip and it made a new XML for RedCine. I opened RedCine, opened all the shots that i used and opened the RedCine XML that i just made. Did my color set my output settings/path and made sure all the clips were set to "Width". I rendered out all the shots as ProRes HQ 1080, then saved my RedCine XML before i closed out. I then tried doing step two of the Redtrip, and it found the right path to the xml but i tried typing in my own path of the Renders because it wasnt finding the right folder and it kept saying "No path found" I literally tried this at least 10 times in different ways but no luck. i havent had time to test this again but i want this workflow to work.

I did not try what it suggested it the instructions, which was to export/compress your "_H" files to ProRes with the name that the camera gave it, i would assume the only real advantage to this is not dealing with rendering?


The second workflow that i am seeing is just converting all your footage to another format off the bat, such as a ProRes. The only thing i am having trouble with is an easy way to label all the footage and do a batch at the same time with out having the same name. (If not i might just have to relabel in finder)Also the fact that it would take a good deal of time to process all of this if you have a long format project. My next question would be if i did do it this way and still kept the original name with in the file name what would be the process to go back to a 4k out if need to be.

The production that i am on are really thinking about shooting on this camera on 4K for a 95 min Indie Feature. We were going to shoot on the HPX3000 but it doesnt really do what we want it to do and the HPX500 isn't really as comparable. I am new to this camera, i have done some test shoots with this but my main concern is my workflow since i am the one who is going to be cutting it and working with it for the next couple of weeks.

Would it be possible to help shed some light of this? It would be much appreciated!

What would be the best and the safest workflow to work with, also having the option to go back to the original 4K res for a possible film out?

Keeping it all organized, do i need the original file names? Im assuming yes.

Then what is the best format to cut it with out having my machine struggle? I was planing on ProRes.

I will also be on set downloading to my laptop then transfering it to my MacPro to Process all the files, so i can hopefully do some editing on set.

also im cutting on a Quad 2.66 with 4GB Ram and a G-Speed es Mirrored through Sata.
 
1) Do a rough edit in FCP
2) Export XML f/ FCP
3) Import XML into Crimson & generate a Redcine-ready XML file
4) Import new XML file into Redcine
5) Color grade in Redcine & export the files as Apple ProRes HQ at 4K
6) Drop the ProRes files into the FCP timeline & finish editing, color correcting, etc.

DONE.
 
We've Only Done A Few Music Videos And Short Form Deliverables (i.e. Less Than 5 Min Finished Pieces) And Found That The Best Way Is:

1. Online Everything In Redcine @ 2k Prores Hq W/ First Light Correction
2. Cut In Fcp
3. Send Vfx To Ae And Back With 2k Prores W/ 4:4:4 Chroma Filtering
4. Send To Color And Back For Grading
5. Full Res 2k Prores Qt D.i. For Filmout
 
Now come on people, isn't there somebody out there doing long-form shows for delivery on television or cable (HD and SD)? Multiple hours, broadcast deadlines? I'd love to hear from you if you are.
Rob Gardner
 
1) Import Proxies into FCP
2) Edit offline in FCP.
3) Separate speed changed clips, 2K and 4K into separate time lines.
4) Conform the time lines using Crimson & REDCINE.

Then either:
5) Bring the roundtrip XMLs back to FCP
6) recombine time lines / speed changes
7) finish in color

or
5) import FCP XMLs from RECINE into AE using this free script:
http://www.creative-workflow-hacks....o-after-effects-scripting-without-the-hassle/
6) Finish in high res in AE, or apply effects as needed.
 
GFIRob said:
Now come on people, isn't there somebody out there doing long-form shows for delivery on television or cable (HD and SD)? Multiple hours, broadcast deadlines? I'd love to hear from you if you are.
Rob Gardner
Click to expand...

We're about to start a series on RED next week. Right now our plan is to:
1. offline 720p dvcprohd thru redcine (our systems are hitting a nice 4:1 @ standard & normal (still need to test draft quality processing)
2. cut & roudtrip with crimson
3. online, first light, & output 2k or 1080 ProResHQ depending on network's requirements and our vfx needs (will probablly just be 1080)
4. color in color, vfx in ae & shake
5. put it all back together in fcp & deliver either D.I. or HDCam

the other workflow were toying with is exactly the same formats and process but switch out Redcine for ScratchCine + redboxx, and crimson for edl's to redboxx; although 35k for slighty faster benchmarks is not really worth it to me; especially on equipment that will be obsolete once color can read r3d files.
~T
 
Thanks, Thom. What are the specs on your computers? You have been able to render down to 720p at four to one (four minutes to one minute of original material)? That sounds very good. Have you taken a test project of any kind through this entire procedure yet (I am assuming so)?

We just finished a 13 hour series and took everything though to master air-tapes in house except for the audio mix. We have been producing multi-hours with Varicam and FCP for several years and I would like to consider the Red system as a possible replacement for the Varicam if we can get the work-flow tightened up to the point that we could do it under series delivery pressure. The Red is an experiment for us.

I am thinking that if you have enough hours in production, the cost of Scratch is not so heavy. If you have 13 hours in a series, for instance, a $35,000 scratch system is not quite $3,000 per show. And when you consider how time becomes desperate money when you are trying to make a deadline and problems emerge, a Scratch system might be the life-saver. Thanks again for your information.
Rob Gardner
 
no problem. our setup consists of 3 MacPro intel quad cores 2.66, & 1 octo-core, 5-8 gigs ram/ system, fcp & quicktime always up to date, all with raid cards for 3-8tb space per system (plus internal raid in each of 1tb + startup disks) as well as all linked together on an xserve for shared material.

Everyone asks why we don't use the proxies, but when you need to show stuff real time, and show people what it will look like (not what it can look like), the least amount of imagination required from their end is the best. So offlining at low end hd is perfect. We're looking at a 7 hour series for this season, and really i can't justify in my mind a redboxx; so i'm not even going to try and justify it to my boss.

We're also using the red as an experiment to replace vipercam, long story short we have our work cut out for us, as we too are doing everything but sound mix in house. If we do go scratch our colorist knows that even better than color so we're set either avenue, if we go color i do that as well so we can tag-team the color work to meet deadlines!

Hope that helps!
~T
 
Thanks, Thom.
I really hope it works out for you. I think the proxies look pretty good, but there are issues with graphics and dissolves as I understand it. And if you can render down to 720p at 4 to 1, you shouldn't lose too much time. What are your settings on Redcine to get that speed? And do I understand you will on-line with Redcine unless you get a Scratch system?

I must say the production company has balls to go into a series with the system as new as it is. I think the Red system can be very good for this kind of project if the workflow shakes out for you. Is the Red you are using yours?
Rob Gardner
 
Redcine settings (doesn't seem to matter if dvcpro or proreshq, since they have about the same data rate/compression ratio) just normal and draft (if doing something else on same system slips between 4 and 5 to 1).

The plan was to online w/ redcine/color combo although i think my whole workflow just went out the window as we just got slammed with a deadline already. Now we're doing everything at the online stage with our 8 core being a dedicated render station 24 hours a day to match scenes already shot on viper (1080 proreshq high/standard= 6-7:1) i don't agree but if that's how they need it done...

yes we're shooting with our red #939 ( check out redcinematographer.com ) and a friend of my boss's has a red as well to shoot 2 camera; plus varicam for 2nd-Unit.

this is getting more stressful by the minute!
 
Well, Thom, I'm sure it will give you great comfort to know that the stress is probably not going to go down...


I am very interested to finally read about somebody doing a series on the Red and I really hope it works out for you. I keep thinking that a Redboxx and Scratch may end up being the way to go, but I'm not ready to drop that kind of cash until I have a project big enough to pay for it. But we have had to do several re-makes of finished and delivered masters for one small content reason or another. We always try to hold onto the contingency line in the budget, but with the crazy shit that happens in television, it's getting harder and harder (we went through three different executive producers on the last series, each one with a different vision.
Thanks again
Rob
 
Those producers will be a PITA. Here is probably what you will hear everyday -
"Well with ________(fill in the blank) we did not have to render"
"What tapedeck will playback RED footage"
"How come the RED footage looks so flat"
"My son is a video editor, maybe he can help you?"
 
lol it's true redguy.

Rob, the one thing that holds me back from buying the redboxx is that it is p.c. based = NO ProRes output (the representative told me that and i almost hung up on him)

since we're onlining everything there's no way in hell that we can do it all in 10-bit UC or even 8-bit for that matter, it's just not practical. ProRes is the way to go, looks like we're just going to buy a new 8-core, stuff it with ram and use it as a render station.
 
What you don't want to here is "Well we've changed executives on your series, but nothing should fundamentally change. Though, it is true that while you shot a series about oranges, your new executive Steve here has some really exciting ideas about apples which he has been talking to the marketing department about and we are all really excited about it. I know you have all the shows in fine cut, but I'm sure you can fix it in the writing..."

That is suicide time...

The PC deal with Scratch is an issue. I would really like to stay on the mac train as much as possible, but really worry about time.
Thanks again,

Rob
 
someone upgraded everything to qt redcode 3.0 and now redcine won't work, i think my brain just melted, we start posting monday
 
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