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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Post Your Apple/Final Cut Based Workflows Here

Hey guys,

Have been reading your back and forth - good conversation. And somewhat unusual in this forum - sane, logical, and unemotional! : )

I wanted to add a few thoughts here:

There are a couple of *major* episodics that have decided to shoot on RED and have decided to use SCRATCH and/or SCRATCH-CINE for at least part of their post workflow. They have not made their decision to shoot RED public yet, so I need to respect that, but these are shows that are consistently in the top10 Neilsens.

Over the past several months, the studios and post facilities behind these shows have been grappling with the post workflows and going through the same angst that you are. At first, they thought they could do the FCP/Crimson/REDCINE route. And they can. But after doing several tests and parallel workflows with FCP/Crimson/REDCINE and FCP/SCRATCH, it was a no-brainer.

It all comes down to time. SCRATCH can instantly load hundreds of clips, sort them, conform them, and do realtime tape outputs. You guys know episodic timetables once production ramps up. There is no wiggle room. None. Plus - especially in LA - there are 24/7 support avenues, quick onsite response, and availability of replacement parts. That's usually crucial to episodic producers and the studios.

Once Color fully supports R3D files, this may be less of an issue for you. But it doesn't right now, and full support with the kind of reliable realtime that SCRATCH has is a long ways away - at least a season. You have a show starting on Monday. It's not a theoretical discussion anymore.

As far as onlining on ProRes... you tell me what's faster: L&T or connecting an SDI cable from SCRATCH-CINE to a Kona card? Output directly from SCRATCH into FCP. Output an EDL from SCRATCH, import to FCP, use that EDL to insert edits into the captured clip.

The workflows are not perfect. There are holes here and there, and every workflow has some issue somewhere. But overall, once tested, the SCRATCH route - especially for episodic - comes out on top in terms of time and reliability.

Thom - if you're in LA - feel free to call me over the weekend to discuss. I don't want to post my mobile number here for spamming reasons, but it's the number posted on the ASSIMILATE website at http://www (dot) assimilateinc (dot) com/contact1.html.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
You know, Lucas, I have twice sent emails to you guys trying to find out what the actual costs and facts are on Scratch. I never received a response. I sent one through this forum and one directly to the email address on your website.

We have a six hour PBS project under final consideration at the network now for full funding, and it could afford Scratch. But all I know is what I read on the forum and on your website.

The series we just finished (13 hours) was a serious lesson in project management and time-critical processes and we had to make some big changes mid-stream as things changed and our basic assumptions changed.

If Scratch is stable and dependable and does what it seems to be advertised to do, and if it can operate as part of an all-Mac, multi-station editing system, then it might be a life saver under series pressure. But if not, it could turn out to be a very expensive boat anchor as the waters close over our heads...

I am a producer, not an editor (I'm just the guy who pays for the stuff) and we have decided to experiment with the Red system as a possible alternative to the DVCproHD (Varicam and HDX900) system that has worked very well for us now for some years. It is also our business model to own as much of the hardware as we can, to avoid going out of house for post production services and this has worked out well for us. It means that more of the money sticks to our company, and that we can be more competitive overall as production budgets continue to wilt.

Almost all of our production takes place overseas, but our headquarters are in Baltimore. Is there a Scratch system working anywhere in the region (Washington DC, Pittsburg, etc?

I am feeling that there is a deep lack of clarity from Red, Assimilate and the forum members about what the best workflow is, and part of this is that the demands of 30 second or 60 second spots, independent features or short personal films are very different from the demands of a multi-hour series where a schedule collapse for technical reasons becomes a budget-breaking nightmare.

Our finishing machine is an 8 core Intel mac with a Kona 3, DVCproHD deck, HDcam deck, Digibeta deck, Harris legalizer, HD and SD monitors. and we have been able to deliver broadcast legal masters without a single technical rejection. So we have a system that works. But I think the Red system represents the potential of a great leap forward in production (visual) quality. I really hope things sort themselves out a little more prior to the delivery of our camera in August.
Thanks
Rob Gardner
 
Hey Rob,

I just searched my email, and sure enough - there was a PM from you on Feb 23 that I never replied to. : (

I just emailed you... give me a call when you get a minute.

Cheers,

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
isn't Phenomenon Apple's replacement to Shake coming out this year...
It would be fantastic if it had full .r3d support and offered Mac users a finishing solution dedicated to Mac.

Think Shake/RedCine/Color with .r3d and Kona 3 support.

I do think it only a matter of time before Apple or a 3rd party bring out a serious solution for Mac users.
 
Sure, but "Phenomenon" is nothing but a rumour. Apple has only shown Color working native with R3D at NAB without giving any release date.

So, if you need speed and a full cinema workflow now, it's Scratch.

If you have more time than money, you can work either FCP offline, use Crimson and grade elsewhere from DPXs or use L&T for ProRes and Color for grading.

ProRes HQ is not bad at all. If you do a first light while importing with RedAlert grades (I hope the next version of L&T will respect curves from RedAlert as well), you don't loose much in Prores – there's still room for final sweetening in Color.

Hope this helps,

Uli
 
L&T and COLOR

L&T and COLOR

Every Sequence i edited using L&T when i try to send to COLOR it crashes it seemed like it didnt like the 2kX1k Frame size has anyone else had this issue
 
ThomtheEditor said:
We've Only Done A Few Music Videos And Short Form Deliverables (i.e. Less Than 5 Min Finished Pieces) And Found That The Best Way Is:

1. Online Everything In Redcine @ 2k Prores Hq W/ First Light Correction
2. Cut In Fcp
3. Send Vfx To Ae And Back With 2k Prores W/ 4:4:4 Chroma Filtering
4. Send To Color And Back For Grading
5. Full Res 2k Prores Qt D.i. For Filmout
Click to expand...

When I try to send my Sequence to color it crashes I transfered all footage with FCP L&T has anyone else had this issue.
 
FCP and COLOR

FCP and COLOR

ThomtheEditor said:
We've Only Done A Few Music Videos And Short Form Deliverables (i.e. Less Than 5 Min Finished Pieces) And Found That The Best Way Is:

1. Online Everything In Redcine @ 2k Prores Hq W/ First Light Correction
2. Cut In Fcp
3. Send Vfx To Ae And Back With 2k Prores W/ 4:4:4 Chroma Filtering
4. Send To Color And Back For Grading
5. Full Res 2k Prores Qt D.i. For Filmout
Click to expand...

When I try to send my Sequence to color it crashes I transfered all footage with FCP L&T has anyone else had this issue.
 
GFIRob said:
Now come on people, isn't there somebody out there doing long-form shows for delivery on television or cable (HD and SD)? Multiple hours, broadcast deadlines? I'd love to hear from you if you are.
Rob Gardner
Click to expand...

Import to Pro Res and stay there! Grade in Color lay pro res back to HDCam SR
 
What is your best import time to Pro Res and is this time a factor?
Thanks
Rob Gardner
 
Chopping on MacBook Pro

Chopping on MacBook Pro

I'm sitting here reading all these things about cutting on MacPro towers that are running a lot of fire power. I'm about to shoot on the RED for a music video for the first time and the director/editor is really hesitant about shooting on the RED because of workflow issues. Is it even possible to cut on the MacBook Pro and actually have a finished product on it?

Sorry for being ignorant about this, I'm just trying to understand this whole workflow thing and to see if it is really going to be a pain for the director.

If it is possible and someone has cut on their MacBook pro, could you tell me what you did?

Thanks,
Sing
 
Yeah, the "M" proxies work great on a MacBook Pro. You'll just have to deal with slower export times when you ready to online your footage after cutting and color correcting.

Seeing that you are shooting a music video, you can also do a one-light in Redcine first and then export 2K ProRes QT files to do an online edit in FCP at full frame rate. On larger productions (like feature films and documentaries), it makes a lot more sense to do an offline edit first using the QT proxies and use the Crimson workflow.
 
You can do data wrangling and offline editing on the MacBook Pro without a problem. But for finishing I'd suggest a MacPro, or you'll be looking at loooong rendering times.
 
For commercials, music videos, short films under 5 minutes macbook pro is really a good solution. Red 4k-Fcp-Crimson-Redcine-1080p DPX-Color.
On my macbook pro the rendering is almost 40/45 minutes for 1 minutes of online, so 5 minutes project is about 4 hours of rendering, not to bad.
 
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