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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

post in 16 bit how to do ?????

R

Rainer Fritz

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Hi All !

So after testing around I am a little bit confused...
Can please somebody explane me how to do the post on apple in 16 bit...
It seems to me that there are some problems....
When I render with Redcine 16 bit Tiffs FCP has great problems with that... same at color... dpx file export from redcine works only at 10 bit at the moment I think so.... export options from color seems to be only prores or 10 bit uncompressed 4:2:2....
so i want to export tiffs or dpx in 16 bit from redcine and want to online the proxies of that in fcp and then grading it in color... but that seems not possible...

thx

rainer
 
Rainer,

You should buy Glue-tools DPX plug in for FCP>>

"Currently supports QuickTime’s 16-bits per channel API."

Also call them directly and get confirmation about it before you buy.

Link>>
 
thx for the information sanjin... i have had the demo version installed...
so but i am confused, because dpx is 10bit log.... think i know not enough about the theory on the codec... it would be roughly enough because the cam has a 12 bit depth... but why has final cut and color so big problems on the tiff sequences and proxies when i can choose it at my timeline settings... color can't handle that tiffs anyway....
i wan't to use the highest quality level...
 
16bit tiffs won't help you in FCP, since FCP is quicktime only and tiffs will be imported as single stills, not as clips like After Effects or Motion would do.

You would want to convert to a 16bit quicktime codec. There are a few out there, but I haven't tried them for editing.

I know Digital Anarchy has the Microcosm Codec, http://www.digitalanarchy.com/micro/micro_main.html

They also have a 16bit None codec for free, though I doubt that would be practical.

If you have scanned film to DPX files, then most likely they are in log color space, but you can have DPX files in any color space you want.
 
Thx Thomas for the info....

I tried it with apple's animation codec.... in fcp it works... but in color not.
So here again asked for implementing more codecs from apple side to color. the best is 10 bit uncompressed, but that is for filmmakers not enough. color should be able to handle the animation codec....

thx
rainer
 
Do some research on Log vs Lin formats, as they are very different (Wikipedia, maybe?). It's not really my area of expertise, but 10-bit Log is generally regarded as able to handle as much dynamic range as 16-bit Lin, although there is some argument about exactly how many stops of DR can be effectively encoded into 10-bit Log.

The Red is 12-bit Lin, which by all accounts is well below the threshold for 10-bit Log encoding.

Most high-end work (such as DI's for features etc) is currently done using 10-bit Log DPX stacks, so it certainly is "good enough" to handle high end CC and VFX work - you should be fine with that, give it a try...
 
Dominic Jones said:
Do some research on Log vs Lin formats, as they are very different (Wikipedia, maybe?). It's not really my area of expertise, but 10-bit Log is generally regarded as able to handle as much dynamic range as 16-bit Lin, although there is some argument about exactly how many stops of DR can be effectively encoded into 10-bit Log.

The Red is 12-bit Lin, which by all accounts is well below the threshold for 10-bit Log encoding.

Most high-end work (such as DI's for features etc) is currently done using 10-bit Log DPX stacks, so it certainly is "good enough" to handle high end CC and VFX work - you should be fine with that, give it a try...
Click to expand...

This is all basically true, but you leave off one critical element...

If you are working in 10-bit log, then you *must* have LUT capability for viewing to convert log data into gamma-encoded linear for proper viewing.

To my knowledge, FCP doesn't have any kind of realtime LUT capability. Any 10-bit log material would have to be linearized on input in order to work correctly, which sort of defeats the point of working in log space.

I'd be happy to be proven wrong about this functionality in FCP/FCS2, but I'm pretty sure it isn't there.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, Inc.
LA, CA, USA
 
FCP can't handle 10 bit log properly (other than by using eg Blackmagic 10 bit RGB codec for cut only editing with, as Si says, an HDLink on the output for viewing LUTs) but Color can work with 10 bit log DPXs, and does have LUT functionality. You need to be very careful, and do some stuff manually, but you can do a DPX conform (2k) in Color.
 
thx a lot for feedback and info....

I should take a little bit more knowledge on dpx and the gluetool plugin, because it is also working on color...

Do you know some knowledge links on the web ?

if apple is not coming down from theire way.....

thx
rainer
 
I would take a look at BitJazz's Sheer codec. It gives you lots of options regarding color space, alpha, color sampling. It also losslessly (TRULY losslessly) compresses, so you save some space. There's also a free decompressor for it, in case you need to pass the footage around.

http://bitjazz.com/en/products/sheervideo
 
why do you need to do the post in 16 bit? Whats your final delivery format? is it for feature film work? if not then why are you attempting 16 bit?
Just curious as a full 16 bit workflow will be very painful for no gain unless you are doing a DI and going back to film... In which case i suggest using a DI system and not FCP.

is the 10 bit online workflow I've suggested any use to you?

see here:
http://www.coremelt.com/support/workflow/
 
eskatonia said:
why do you need to do the post in 16 bit? Whats your final delivery format? is it for feature film work? if not then why are you attempting 16 bit?
Just curious as a full 16 bit workflow will be very painful for no gain unless you are doing a DI and going back to film... In which case i suggest using a DI system and not FCP.

is the 10 bit online workflow I've suggested any use to you?

see here:
http://www.coremelt.com/support/workflow/
Click to expand...

i would actually like to see a 16-bit work flow as well.

i've used other cameras which output 16-bits for scientific applications, i.e., you don't 'edit' the files for a movie but you are analyzing the hyperspectral cube of data, looking at waterfalls, PCA etc.
 
galexander said:
i would actually like to see a 16-bit work flow as well.

i've used other cameras which output 16-bits for scientific applications, i.e., you don't 'edit' the files for a movie but you are analyzing the hyperspectral cube of data, looking at waterfalls, PCA etc.
Click to expand...

well sure, but you can't get more out than whats there. The R3D files only contain 12 bit linear color information so working with for example 12 bit CineForm codec lets you preserve all the color information that's there.
 
eskatonia said:
well sure, but you can't get more out than whats there. The R3D files only contain 12 bit linear color information so working with for example 12 bit CineForm codec lets you preserve all the color information that's there.
Click to expand...

if you look in the threads with the QT bombing, the Redcine files are actually 8-bit.
 
using Red Cine to convert R3D files to 10 bit Quicktime codecs gives you 10 bit color information (or 12 bit if you go to Cineform with max settings). I have tested this myself visually by examining the footage in Shake with different gamma settings and I can see the difference between a 10 bit and an 8 bit export from Red Cine. I will read your threads for more info.

EDIT: ah ok. People are having problems on PC's and with other codecs.

I can confirm the following works:

MacBook Pro 10.4.11 or 10.5.1 (tested both). Red Cine 74 build. Export in ProRes 422 HQ or Cineform Codec.
Your quicktime files will contain 10 bit color information. I did see some problems with other codecs but I believe the above two codecs give you very good workflow solutions.
 
eskatonia said:
using Red Cine to convert R3D files to 10 bit Quicktime codecs gives you 10 bit color information (or 12 bit if you go to Cineform with max settings). I have tested this myself visually by examining the footage in Shake with different gamma settings and I can see the difference between a 10 bit and an 8 bit export from Red Cine. I will read your threads for more info.

EDIT: ah ok. People are having problems on PC's and with other codecs.

I can confirm the following works:

MacBook Pro 10.4.11 or 10.5.1 (tested both). Red Cine 74 build. Export in ProRes 422 HQ or Cineform Codec.
Your quicktime files will contain 10 bit color information. I did see some problems with other codecs but I believe the above two codecs give you very good workflow solutions.
Click to expand...

thanks! i'm curious could you please post one of your log files using each codec on a 4k frame?
 
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