Poll: Apple Representative/Contact for Red User

[tillHavis]

000000000

 

[Scott Simmons]

Sure we can hope and it certainly doesn't hurt to try but I think we all know how they saying goes .. we can want in one hand and s**t in the other and see what happens first! Apple has never had much direct contact with users and I think it is to their detriment. Say what you will about Avid but we have had direct contact with Avid in these forums (despite the fact that Avid isn't "officially" supported by RED) for a long time now and it has been extremely helpful.

 

[John Tissavary]

Let me know where to sign up, I'll do anything I'm able to support this, in spite of my pessimism of Apples desire to respond to a marginal pro-apps market.

 

[Martin Weiss]

From what I have heard, any Apple employee would instantly become a former employee if they participated.

 

[Bruce Allen]

Of course. If we had someone here who is knowledgeable, responsive and nice (eg like Avid's MichaelP) it'd change things a lot.

On the other hand, then I'd have to stop making sarcastic comments about Apple's aloof "cooler than thou" attitude and it's policy of not really caring about its professional users once they have bought into the marketing and feature list... maybe I should have voted "no" and asked for the fun to continue!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[laguun]

Apples "no-information" policy is bad and annoying.

i am afraid it wont change.

apple is interested in selling products to their users, not in talking with them.

 

[Paul Provost]

it seems apple is now called "iPhone". waiting for their "pro" apps to catch up is wearing a little thin. sure it was great getting a few semi pro products for nothing, but we need real PRO products now and will pay whoever (assimilate, farm, whatever) for the real deal. shake:broken / color:broken / final cut?... now avid has dropped their price huge. time to move on? I feel like I have wasted time waiting for the promised land and now have to look eleswhere to be able to get to work without hobbled product.

 

[Noah Kadner]

Sorry but that's totally not going to happen.... Also it's a bit short-sighted to expect a rep only on Reduser. There are literally hundreds of other cameras, technologies, plug-ins etc that work with Final Cut Pro. Apple's not in a position to hire one forum support agent for each of those products. It's never been Apple policy to comment on software before it's been released, if you want the roadmap and inside track on development you don't want Apple.

Besides, ultimately it's just not necessary. You have tons and tons of peer users who perform the same function. I'm all for leaving Apple alone to actually make software and we'll help you work with it.

-Noah

 

[Wayne D]

i think that FCP was the best thing ever to happen to AVID. i don't speak MAC and am firmly an AVID user but FCP gave them some long over due competition. if this will keep FCP chomping at their heals then i say go for it.

but i will never give up my AVID.....to old to learn new tricks...

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Please tell me how this can be a hinderance to a company rather than a positive?

Support people tend to make a lot of forward-leaning statements about features and products. This has serious competitive ramifications, and also has potential SOX 404 impact in a worst case scenario.

Publicly traded companies are justifiably paranoid about SOX 404 prosecution. So in many cases, setting up a forum like is much more a case of risk management than "not caring."

...Gray. The World is Gray, Jack.

Lucas

 

[Bruce Allen]

NoahK, lots of respect to you, but I will have to humbly disagree.

Sorry but that's totally not going to happen.... Also it's a bit short-sighted to expect a rep only on Reduser. There are literally hundreds of other cameras, technologies, plug-ins etc that work with Final Cut Pro.

Apple's not in a position to hire one forum support agent for each of those products.

Same situation with Avid. But they somehow managed to get the resources to have MichaelP as a rep. IMHO he is doing a great job.

Besides, ultimately it's just not necessary. You have tons and tons of peer users who perform the same function. I'm all for leaving Apple alone to actually make software and we'll help you work with it.

That's like saying we don't need the RED team on Reduser because we have peer users. And that the RED team should just get back to making cameras.

I like being able to actually communicate with the people making the product we buy.

If Apple's workflow were perfect, then there would be need for this. But it's not by a long shot, and they should listen.

Just my 2c. I am no longer interested in FCP workflow anyway (was thinking about buying a Mac and Final Cut Studio 3 when it came out) but have recently bought two licenses of Media Composer based on, for one thing, MichaelP's presence on REDuser.

Oh, and the fact that my sound designer / re-recording mixer friend (who spent the last 2 weeks at Skywalker setting some stuff up) literally jumped for joy when he heard I was using Avid on my next films (bear in mind he owns and uses FCP himself at home), because "they actually do OMFs right"

If there were someone from Apple who listened - even if they just said "we're aware of the problem", it'd make a big difference. But I think that in many cases they are not aware. Because they don't edit 8+ hours a day. They write software 8+ hours a day - and that's different.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

 

[julien foure]

I'll definetely sign up for the request.

Looks like Apple's trying hard to get partnerships with camera manufacturers rather than helping us !

By the way, has anyone ever tried to call an Apple hotline
peace

 

[Trevor Meier]

MichaelP's presence on this forum says a lot about Avid as a company. If they back it up consistently with software releases & updates, they could begin a large shift in opinion back towards the Avid camp. Apple broke open the doors to post with a professional product without competition at its price level. But they have never been good at appearing responsive to their user base. If they don't begin to grasp this, they may lose the fight they started.

 

[MichaelP]

As Luki says, it is a careful balancing act - forward looking statements from a public company can be harmful and the guidelines are for deliverables outside the current quarter. RED is not a public company which is why they can do what they do. If a public company did the same thing, they would not be able to recognize revenue for anything sold that did not meet what was discussed as being part of a release until it actually shipped.

I can't speak for Apple, but I see this as a learning experience for everyone involved. I am not only a product designer/solutions manager but a producer/editor of features so the forum provides information for both sides of the brain.


Michael

 

[Jeff Coatney]

A dedicated Rep will only slow down the process. It's like this: Regardless of who the Rep is, that person is gonna be famous in Red / Apple circles. They will begin to realize that as the vehement and specific feature requests grow, so too will their need to deliver on those promises. Problem is, the only people backing them up is their own corporate bureaucracy and the Rep becomes not just the whipping boy for all of us that demand specific features that don't get delivered, they become persona non-grata in their own companies because they'll try to goose their division managers to get the job done. Meanwhile, the Company that the Rep represents will feel like they have a lock on the solutions because they have a guy interfacing with the professionals in the field and they won't feel the urgency to pick-up the pace of delivering on what their guy has promised all of us. Follow that? It's a tough one to wade through, but I'm against the concept of Reps. The companies involved: Apple, Avid, Adobe, et al, must feel a deep sense of urgency to compel them to get solutions quicker than their competition. A Rep will diminish this sense of urgency. It will make the Rep (from whatever company you like) feel like his team has a lock on the market so its okay to back off the pressure and take it slowly, while the competition will feel like they don't need to provide a solution at all. This has got to be a horse race from the word go. At any point, any one of these companies could show up with the solution and capture just a tiny percentage of the market away from the other guy.

 

[laguun]

I can confirm what Michael and Luki are saying - when i was working for discreet logic, we had to follow *very* strict communication guidelines reagrding any forward looking statement.

The main idea behind these strict laws is to protect investors from companys who just spread vapourware, the disadvantage is that the customers of companies have to suffer for the investors reduced risk.

 

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi Luki ! If this happens it is simply a matter of training and should not be a reason to provide proper support. With a focused senior representative on board they should be able to control this. Looking at this and other professional forums I would say most users are respectful and responsive and are more interested in resolving issues than taking SOX cases.

I agree Apple need to be carefull but not paranoid. Apples success is built upon innovation and all innovation needs forward looking and thinking people.
Take Red's approach for instance. Their camera and success is built upon delivering what customers want in conjunction with them, not apart from them.
Looking at the trend in the professional market it seems it is the smaller companies are making the greatest inroads and driving innovation. Simply put because they are small they are fighting for market share and tend to be at the coalface of these developments. Apple may just have taken their eye off the ball and feel they need to maintain and protect their market rather than leading it.
The irony is that in protecting themselves they may also be isolating themselves from the very innovation their customers can provide.
Again how much of the Red ones development and improvements came from suggestions on this very forum.

Regards.

In a perfect world, sure. But what is first and foremost in a support person's head is helping the customer.

The "training" you talk about is *not* simple and straightforward. The guidelines for what can get you into trouble with SOX are fairly dense legalese. It is much easier to just issue a blanket policy. I have to say that if I were in charge of making those decisions at Apple, I would be doing exactly the same thing. Needs of the many, and all that.

MichaelP from Avid is here... but Michael is an extremely experienced industry pro, has been working for Avid for something like 150 years. And despite his modesty here, he is a senior member of Avid management and one of Avid's key technical minds. He is very aware of what he can and can't say and can moderate his discussions accordingly. A 20-year old front line support jock doesn't have that same level of self-control and awareness of corporate guidelines.

RED can say what they want, because they are not a publicly traded company and as such are not bound by the SOX restrictions.

Best,

Lucas

 

[Hrvoje Simic]

Apples "no-information" policy is bad and annoying.

i am afraid it wont change.

apple is interested in selling products to their users, not in talking with them.

Sadly, I agree.

Support people tend to make a lot of forward-leaning statements about features and products. This has serious competitive ramifications, and also has potential SOX 404 impact in a worst case scenario.

So...the ONLY solution left should be to cut the interaction ?



How should I interpret this then ?

...Gray. The World is Gray, Jack.

 

[Joel Kaye]

MichaelP from Avid is here... but Michael is an extremely experienced industry pro

AVID is publicly traded.

Most of SOX has to do with financial reporting and accounting. Almost anything discussed regarding RED would not adversely effect stock values or financial fundamentals. I think a disclaimer in a signature would probably be fine.

This is more about Apple not figuring out how to handle pro app customer interactions (or caring to). They don't show up in Apple stores all day long and complain like iPod and iPhone users do.

Whatever... somebody wants RED customer business and will provide native editing solutions and we'll buy it. Apple had a year headstart and looks like not much was done with that advantage.

 

[mezmo]

But are Apple pro products really pro products? Sure you can get
into FCP, Shake, and stuff about and end up with a result, a desktop
result for not that much money. Color will grade stuff but it's about as elegent as a bick outhouse.
And with every new hardware release Apple will release some new flashy software that sorta half works, some of the time.
You get what you pay for with this company, software is cheap by professional standards, but tends to be a little nasty.
Will this ever change? I doubt it. Am I unhappy with Apple? No, We have used our Apple stuff on many projects with reasonable/good results that represent good value for money over the few years we have owned it.
Would I buy Apple stuff again? No, they have given me no reason to
continue with their products as only minor attemts have been made to grow and improve these products over that time.
Also the company seems not to have the ability to finish and finalize a
product up to a good professional standard, both now and I would guess on into the future. Given the record to date.
I suggest we all start to look at other professional solutions able to deliver the features that Apple can't seem to deal with. We all know what they are.
And Apple know what they are. They have been discussed here and on a
dozen other forums thousands of times. AND NOTHING HAPPENS.
Having some Apple dude come in and talk about this all over again is a
total waste of time IMHO. These guys are not up to the task.
Sorry Apple, nice knowing you, and time to move on. I will look on with
interest when you release your next big thing, but this time I won't be buying any of it.
Cheers Mezmo