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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Politics, religion: was 2008 Elections...? - enter at your own risk

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adobeone said:
Hitler's army had 13 million men, not all of them were Nazi fanatics. No economic base, Iran has huge resources. How many AK-47 do you think are in the world. Russia and China are selling to everybody. Do you know how Iran stopped Iraq? They send unarmed human waves of 13-17 year old boys until they overwhelmed the Iraqis. Extremist already rule Iran, Indonesia is being threatened, Pakistan is on the edge, Hezbollah controls a third of Lebanon, Hamas has split the Palestinians and now control Gaza, and the Saudi kingdom is far from invincible.
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Everything's changed since the introduction of aerial warfare and bombers.

All the AK-47s and even tanks won't matter, if you're giving them hell from above.

The Muslims don't control the sky and I don't see them controlling it in the near future.

Nukes are a different story, though.
 
karapetkov said:
Everything's changed since the introduction of aerial warfare and bombers.

All the AK-47s and even tanks won't matter, if you're giving them hell from above.

The Muslims don't control the sky and I don't see them controlling it in the near future.

Nukes are a different story, though.
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I totally agree... in today's modern chemical and nuclear environment, a terrorist's weapons are pre-sited. Just think what would have happened if UBL and his boys had gone ahead with the proposal (that he nixed) to fly one of those Boeing Bombs into a nuclear pouer plant? You don't need a large army, just a dedicated team of specialists with some oil money to fund them.

(Thank goodness the RED Team is a force for good,:innocent: and not evil.:devil:
 
They will never stop until they achieve their goal of world domination.
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In my opinion I think this line of thinking is dangerous because it is exactly what many groups have said about Jews to justify their discrimination. You have to be careful not to fall into a trap where your beliefs might condone immoral actions. Do you see how that type of thinking can be problematic?
I wouldn't want my judgement clouded by emotion and closed to opposite points of view. If the Germans thought things through and had the courage to admit they were wrong, then the Holocaust would not have occurred.

Now I'm not saying that the "they're trying to kill us" mentality is going to lead to a Holocaust (that's just silly). But I think the problem here is that it is counter-productive and closes your mind to solutions that might work. Invading other countries isn't going to solve terrorism. No one has stopped terrorism by invading another country. And invading other countries likely breeds more terrorism (e.g. Chechnya), which is extremely counter-productive. But with the "they won't stop until they kill us" mentality, you only focus on that single solution.

I don't think solving terrorism is an easy problem. But certainly some countries have managed to do it (e.g. Britain and the IRA).
 
GlennChan said:
In my opinion I think this line of thinking is dangerous because it is exactly what many groups have said about Jews to justify their discrimination. You have to be careful not to fall into a trap where your beliefs might condone immoral actions. Do you see how that type of thinking can be problematic?
I wouldn't want my judgement clouded by emotion and closed to opposite points of view. If the Germans thought things through and had the courage to admit they were wrong, then the Holocaust would not have occurred.

Now I'm not saying that the "they're trying to kill us" mentality is going to lead to a Holocaust (that's just silly). But I think the problem here is that it is counter-productive and closes your mind to solutions that might work. Invading other countries isn't going to solve terrorism. No one has stopped terrorism by invading another country. And invading other countries likely breeds more terrorism (e.g. Chechnya), which is extremely counter-productive. But with the "they won't stop until they kill us" mentality, you only focus on that single solution.

I don't think solving terrorism is an easy problem. But certainly some countries have managed to do it (e.g. Britain and the IRA).
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The British ruthlessly hunted down the IRA and killed them. Once their military arm was broken, then the political arm of the IRA came to the table.

You don't see Jews calling for the Palestinians to be wiped off the face of the Earth. President Clinton work tirelessly to bring them together, it wasn't the Israelis who walk from the table.

It was Hezbollah that started firing rockets on Israeli cities from southern Lebanon. Not the other way around. This isn't some underground conspiracy, Islamic terrorism is not hiding anything.

The removal of Sadam Hussein was the stated policy of the American government under the Clinton administration, and voted on and adopted by Congress. Remember the CIA's Rendition program was a Clinton invention.

I wish, like you we could all come together and peacefully work it out, that ship sailed the day the UN supported the creation of Israel. It's us or them...

Look at the successes of the surge in Iraq, It took America 13 years from the Deceleration of Independence to the Bill of Rights. Something the Iraqi people did in 2 years. I would say it took us until 1964 before to fulfill the complete promise of the Constitution.

Don't the Iraqi people, who braved death to bring democracy to their nation deserve our support. Or is freedom just something we talk about over a mocha, it's good for us, but to bad for anyone outside the west. "Your cultures are to stupid, or barbaric to be capable to achieve it." That is arrogance, and thank Allah that the Iraqis are proving that prevalent attitude wrong.....
 
GlennChan said:
In my opinion I think this line of thinking is dangerous because it is exactly what many groups have said about Jews to justify their discrimination. You have to be careful not to fall into a trap where your beliefs might condone immoral actions. Do you see how that type of thinking can be problematic?
I wouldn't want my judgement clouded by emotion and closed to opposite points of view. If the Germans thought things through and had the courage to admit they were wrong, then the Holocaust would not have occurred.

Now I'm not saying that the "they're trying to kill us" mentality is going to lead to a Holocaust (that's just silly). But I think the problem here is that it is counter-productive and closes your mind to solutions that might work. Invading other countries isn't going to solve terrorism. No one has stopped terrorism by invading another country. And invading other countries likely breeds more terrorism (e.g. Chechnya), which is extremely counter-productive. But with the "they won't stop until they kill us" mentality, you only focus on that single solution.

I don't think solving terrorism is an easy problem. But certainly some countries have managed to do it (e.g. Britain and the IRA).
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Finally an intelligent post.

Sorry to say this, but some really stupid posts in this thread. Can a mod please change the title to the official politics and religion thread.
 
number6 said:
Just think what would have happened if UBL and his boys had gone ahead with the proposal (that he nixed) to fly one of those Boeing Bombs into a nuclear pouer plant?
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231 dead people in the middle of scrubland.

I used to live near hanford. Very very little would have happened if they had flown a 767 into one of the reactors or cooling towers.

I'm sure they would want to make sure there were no cracks...
 
All I can say is WOW!

Hope this thread is NOT deleted!

For a foreigner (to the US) who has only the distant perspective of the US and it's massive impact on the lives of most of the world, this is interesting (and partly fun & disturbing, I must admit...) reading and discussions.

Please Jarred. Don't kill this, even though it's faaaaar off what is generally allowed here.

Gunleik
 
Well you know, what are the three things you don't talk about in America?

Politics
Religion
Money
 
Gunleik just put his finger on it. It's horrifying to think that "foreigners" will be reading this crap, and assume that most or all Americans think like George W. Bush.

Even worse, it's possible most American do think like George W. Bush.

The horror, the shame....

Anyway, Gunleik, the Bush line is NOT characteristic of people in the arts in the U.S. Only an equipment-fixated forum would draw these kinds of responses. An arty forum would be full of paraphrases of Noam Chomsky, not George W. Bush.
 
LMAO, Jeff, you put my name on a thread with such a controversial new title?

Hehe... ok. Let's get it on!

It looks like Barack is going to slaughter Clinton tonight. Huge shakeup in the history of American politics.

I'm still pulling for my man Ron Paul on the GOP side tonight. :)
 
In the interest of clarity, because I am getting PM'ed. When I say "Its us or them."

Us is every Man, Woman, Gays, Jews, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Hedonists, Wickas, Atheists, and the vast majority of Muslims. Who have no desire to return to the 7th century.... Contrary to what you may think. I am not a "Kill them all, let God sort them out" kind of guy...

On the morality issue Glenn, is passively standing on the sidelines watching the innocent slaughtered immoral?

Many innocent people have been killed in this conflict most at the hands of the insurgents. Now that the tide of the violence is changing, and people are coming together peaceably wouldn't be immoral to abandon them, and doom them to a bloody genocide. (remember 3 million plus when we left southeast asia in 1975)

The argument weather to go into Iraq or not, has past...
 
Tom said:
LMAO, Jeff, you put my name on a thread with such a controversial new title?

Hehe... ok. Let's get it on!

It looks like Barack is going to slaughter Clinton tonight. Huge shakeup in the history of American politics.

I'm still pulling for my man Ron Paul on the GOP side tonight. :)
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Sorry Tom, my request was intended to be tongue in cheek..

Ron Paul is an interesting phenomena. The internet revoloution is going to change a lot , but perhaps moreso in the next election than this one.. Education is key.. As for Barack,

hos_bros.jpg
 
I know, those results are surprising so far! Hillary doing much better in these reports.
 
One word: SuperTuesday! (or whatever day Feb 5 falls on)
 
She may not NEED to wait til Feb 5
 
krd said:
Anyway, Gunleik, the Bush line is NOT characteristic of people in the arts in the An arty forum would be full of paraphrases of Noam Chomsky, not George W. Bush.
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I think he just called me un-arty!:gun: :usd:
 
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