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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Politics, religion: was 2008 Elections...? - enter at your own risk

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David Mullen ASC said:
Going back to the elections...

It's interesting to hear now that some Republicans think Obama will be easier to defeat than Hillary Clinton. I thought the conventional wisdom was that the dislike of the Clintons was so great among Republicans that it would galvanize and energize the party base in the effort to defeat her. Is it because they think he's a political lightweight who won't stand up in a head-to-head contest against Romney (who I think is most likely to end up with the nomination) or one of the others? Or do they think that an African-American simply has no chance to win? I'm curious to hear what their thinking is.
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Especially when they were recently saying they hoped Clinton would win because they believed they could more easily beat her. edit: sorry this part was redundant.

Sounds like they just want to single out the front runner du jour.
 
Poi Boy said:
Different era, those kind of wars are likely gone forever.
Aloha
-A
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The despots around the world are rapidly discovering that their future lies in economic ties with the western world. We won't invade China and China won't invade us. We'll just start lumping together as we become more and more dependent. Small groups might carry out attacks on each other but "world police" won't be a joke two centuries from now. In 3 equalibrium will probably have completely occured as has philosophy. As a result you'll have localized uniqueness as you have in the US but the differences will be policy and taxation. Assuming of course we aren't running on auxillary hardware already.

Invading Iraq was a huge mistake but there are very few similar mistakes we can make at this point. And even less in the future.
 
Still think the jury's out on whether that was a mistake.... just sayin"
 
Curran Giddens said:
Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich on PBS "Bill Moyers Journal" on now
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Can't watch now Curran, there's a cricket with one leg missing trying to cross the room. Gotta see if he makes it!
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Wow this thread went insane... I could respond to lots in here, but I guess all that I can say is I agree with a few things said. But mostly, I disagree with the lot of ya! :bleh:



By my accounting of American history, this happened somwhere in the 1820's... Really just a few years after the last of our founding fathers had passed. Every now and then the stars align and major events are met with a truly charsimatic leader with the right stuff and we end up with a great president. ...Lincoln, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, etc.. Many of them not appreciated by all or even recognized for their great achievement(s) while in office or even before their deaths. ...Same can be said about those who've come along with the "wrong stuff". G. W. Bush is probably going to go down in history right next to Tricky Dick.



I agree... But who is going to change these laws on which our very country was founded? Surely the very branches of our government, especially congress, is not going to vote to eliminate their bread and butter.



If only we could start with something like this. Our society wastes so much energy on wanting new and "tougher" legislation or laws in the name of gun control, violent crime, drunk driving, etc.. Perhaps we should actually enforce the laws that are already in place and see how that goes? There's a big difference between having a law on the books and enforcing that law. I believe that many of our laws are more than tough enough and would serve as a true deterrent to crime if only these laws would be fully enforced when they should be.
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Jeff,

Very well put...I guess that's why you have the moderator title!
And yes of course the current administration will go down in history as being the absolute worst ! It amazes me how many people agree and yet the embarrassment continues.
Then there congress..Two health care lobbyists for every member of Congress..
Shame….. Shame
The world view of our county is at an all time low.....It's truly sad.......and we deserve better, It’s not like we are getting a discount for bad government service….on the contrary it cost us more…dollar at an all time low..
 
Poi Boy said:
Different era
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Not really, only for those who choose it to be. I know a couple people who are still living today that served in WWII. My grandfather lost two brothers in the war and two other brothers of his returned home safe, both are deceased now. My grandfather is still with us as he was the youngest of the men in that generation. He was enlisted toward the end of the war, but didn't see action before the war ended. One of his brothers landed on Normandy beach 6 hours past the initial invasion and spent days just clearing bodies from the shore. I never heard about it from him directly, he would never talk about it. I only asked him about his tour of duty once to which he quickly said he had nothing to say that I wanted to hear. He left the room, but not before I noticed I had brought him to tears. I have a great uncle on the other side of the family who served in the Pacific theatre and was KIA. He was awarded the Congressional Medal of Valor for his actions. His story is truly inspiring and I would love to make a film about it some day.

those kind of wars are likely gone forever.
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We can only hope so.
 
David Birdy said:
Jeff,


And yes of course the current administration will go down in history as being the absolute worst ! It amazes me how many people agree and yet the embarrassment continues.
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David, how quickly we forget... The Carter Administration is by far the worst, and the Kennedy Administration was second (no one is allowed to say that until now, because he was assassinated... the Carter comment was made immediately after a more upbeat RR took office and the hostages held in Iran for a year or so were released). And yes you can get a lot of people to agree who sit in front of a tv and allow tv news to form their opinion for them. This also worked well during the 1800s when large cattle drives were formed. The cattle mostly all agreed to move in unison.

The world view of our county is at an all time low.....It's truly sad.......and we deserve better, It’s not like we are getting a discount for bad government service….on the contrary it cost us more…dollar at an all time low..
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Nickolas Sarkozy seems to hold us in high esteem. Gordon Brown says he wants to continue a close relationship with the U.S. You must be talking about Achmendinejad or the Venezuelan guy... Castro's friend. Dollar devalued and our export numbers are skyrocketing!

I've found when I'm doun in the dumps a little St. John's Wort helps. Not pushing herbs here or anything... just sayin'
 
number6 said:
David, how quickly we forget... The Carter Administration is by far the worst, and the Kennedy Administration was second (no one is allowed to say that until now, because he was assassinated... the Carter comment was made immediately after a more upbeat RR took office and the hostages held in Iran for a year or so were released). And yes you can get a lot of people to agree who sit in front of a tv and allow tv news to form their opinion for them. This also worked well during the 1800s when large cattle drives were formed. The cattle mostly all agreed to move in unison.


Nickolas Sarkozy seems to hold us in high esteem. Gordon Brown says he wants to continue a close relationship with the U.S. You must be talking about Achmendinejad or the Venezuelan guy... Castro's friend. Dollar devalued and our export numbers are skyrocketing!

I've found when I'm doun in the dumps a little St. John's Wort helps. Not pushing herbs here or anything... just sayin'
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Spoken like a true blue GW Texan....Wake up look around Man !
 
Jeff Kilgroe said:
Not really, only for those who choose it to be.





very much a different era. doesn't matter what we choose it to be. If we we have another war like ww2 it would be the end for all.

I don't see how anyone could think that it is too soon to tell if Iraq was a mistake !
There will be a bloodbath after we leave regardless, if we leave tomorrow or ten years from now, makes no difference, blood bath. You can not make people do what you want them to do, they have to want it for themselves. I doubt very much that there will be a statue of W in future Iraq.
-A
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adobeone said:
I would say those who were liberated from Hitler would disagree with your assessment of War.
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I think those citizens "liberated" from their lives in Iraq would disagree with your assessment of war.

Jeff Kilgroe said:
G. W. Bush is probably going to go down in history right next to Tricky Dick.
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You're too kind. Most genuine fiscal conservatives LIKE Nixon and his legacy. Bush's legacy will be more like Warren Harding's. Criminal.

im.thatoneguy said:
I hear lots of talk of hating Clinton but I rarely see the actual rationality behind that.

It's clear the ultra right does hate her but they're not going to be voting for her or Obama anyway. The "Everybody hates Hillary" card has always seemed like a red herring to me.
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It IS a red herring... They think Obama will be easier to beat. They are sorely mistaken.

adobeone said:
Senator Clinton has far to much Tape laying around, the PAC's are going to cut her deep if she is the Nominee.
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They'll try to cut Obama deep too, since he isn't taking their money. Hillary is/was taking plenty.
 
vincelucero said:
If you haven't seen this, check it out. Say what you will about it but it definitely shows the power of editing. Mind changing.

http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
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Thanks for posting this Vince. Just finished watching it. Everyone should watch this. It is powerful and damning stuff. Clearly this film exemplifies the point that our role, as artists and filmmakers, is to stop and think about making films that motivate and encourage people to question and act, instead of just entertain, and then spend at least a solid chunk of our time doing just that.

I love the Hendrix quote at the end:
Only when the power of love is greater than the love of power, will the world be at peace.

And that's truely what will make all beings safe and secure, a peaceful world.
Not peace through superior firepower.
 
Dominic Cochran said:
You're too kind. Most genuine fiscal conservatives LIKE Nixon and his legacy. Bush's legacy will be more like Warren Harding's. Criminal.
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It would be interesting to see a historical perspective on Bush 100 years from now. It's most certainly not going to be good, the extent of how bad still has yet to be seen.
 
These torture arguments are still bugging the hell out of me. "Conservatives" on the board, do me a favor and explain this apparent contradiction to me:

Why is it that the same people who claim government is too incompetent to deliver the mail, run the public schools or regulate industrial pollutants are not only willing, but eager, to put the power of life and death, and the waterboard and the genital electrode, in the hands of that very same government?

How is it that government suddenly becomes competent and wise, and not to be second-guessed, but only when it's holding a cattle prod and conducting executions? For everything else -- from mail delivery to public pensions to regulating sulfur emissions -- it's a screw-up and not to be trusted?

Is it simply that conservatives hate social programs and love punishment and violence, crude and insulting as that may sound? Or is there some other way to make this "political philosophy" coherent? Please tell me, because I can't figure it out.
 
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