Welcome to our community

Be a part of something great, join today!

  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Politics, religion: was 2008 Elections...? - enter at your own risk

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oh and outing Valeria Plame really gets me irked. The Director of the CIA has testified that she was indeed undercover when she was outed. She was working on WMD in Iran.

At least 3 administration officials leaked her name and Scooter Libby lied to protect them. And he gets a commuted sentence to keep him shut up.

Treason at worst... certainly a High Crime. And this administration acts like they care about national security. They care about defense contract profits maybe.

Oh - and Halliburton moving its HQ to Dubai... they are America's largest defense contracter now.... and they are no longer an American company. Yeah - these guys in power love America all right.

Oh... Bush stopped publishing M3 money supply numbers so there's no way to tell how much money is being printed and therefore make a real inflation calculation. Last known figure was +17%.

Yeah, really bad. And the media is paid off to shut up about it all. Instead, which blonde girl is missing today?
 
Let's start with 1.
Not getting Osama Bin Laden when it has been admitted that the US government knew where he was while he was still in Afghanistan.

I have heard many times before. So I will pose you this question. If the US had killed Osama Bin Laden in Afghanistan, do you think the Jihadist Cult who rap their murderous acts in Islam. Would say OK America it's over we did like Osama he was a real drag at parties? Osama is a man not a movement.

Let's start with 1.
Moving against Iraq with false information when it had nothing to do with the attacks against the US, thus involving us in this quagmire of a war.

This is a myth, not one senior member of the Bush Administration said that Iraq had any part in the attacks of 911. The VP said that, a report from Chech intelligence said that there was meeting between one of the Hijackers and an a member of Iraqi intelligence. he went on to say that it was under investigation, but it had not been corroborated.

I'm not a Bush fan but truth is the truth.
 
Truth is the Truth except when it's vague.

The Bush Administration mixed and meshed the Iraq/9-11 Message to be legally separate but clearly a link was implied.

"We cannot forget what happened on 9-11; we must attack Saddam who is harboring terrorists or else we will be attacked again!"

That sentence at no point says "Saddam was behind 9-11".
 
This is a myth, not one senior member of the Bush Administration said that Iraq had any part in the attacks of 911.

The truth is that Cheney and EVERY Republican pundit like Hannity and Limbaugh have done everything they could to associate 9-11 and Iraq.

Now the President, subsequent to the invasion of Iraq has admitted that Iraq had nothing to do with 9-11. Many Americans who hear that quote for the first time are still stunned today when they hear it.

70% of Americans believed that Iraq had something to do with 9-11 when we invaded Iraq. Why? The Bush administration did nothing to fix that misperception. They encouraged their mouthpieces in the media to promote the idea. The omission of the Truth is NOT the Truth.

Also - administration officials said before the war that the cost of the Iraq war to the American people would be 2 Billion dollars. The rest would come from Iraq oil revenues. Iraq is capable of producing about $20 billion a year when at full capacity. Bush spent 1 trillion dollars. We could have just bought it all for the next 100 years... but it's not really about the oil. That wouldn't maximize profits. Fighting a war and raising oil prices maximizes profits. World record oil profits right now.

In WWII it was against the law to profit on the war. Harry Truman was made President largely in how he went after war profiteers. That was a real war and he was a more honest man.

Really... there's no defending this guy. Even my most hardcore Republican friends have figured out Bush is no Republican.
 
Truth is the Truth except when it's vague.

The Bush Administration mixed and meshed the Iraq/9-11 Message to be legally separate but clearly a link was implied.

"We cannot forget what happened on 9-11; we must attack Saddam who is harboring terrorists or else we will be attacked again!"

That sentence at no point says "Saddam was behind 9-11".

Thats your interpretation, and what you wanted to hear. How many suiside bombers have blown up a Starbucks, a bus, a train, a movie theater, or night club in the US.

Not one, It isn't luck Buba.
 
Oh and outing Valeria Plame really gets me irked. The Director of the CIA has testified that she was indeed undercover when she was outed. She was working on WMD in Iran.

At least 3 administration officials leaked her name and Scooter Libby lied to protect them. And he gets a commuted sentence to keep him shut up.

What gets me irked about the Valerie Plame case is the reason why she was outed. Cheney wanted to get back at her husband, Joseph Wilson, for exposing the fact that the CIA document showing that Iraq was trying to buy uranium from Africa, was a fake.

This all the proof needed to show that the justification for a preemptive war with Iraq was a scam.
 
Here's the biggest single difference, outside of obvious moral stands, between Republicans and Democrats: Democrats, Lieberman (now independent excepted), believe in a static world. Republicans believe in a dynamic world. That's it in a nutshell.

TAXES: Democrats believe that raising taxes does not change behavior, but everyone with half a brain knows that they do (including the Democrats, considered individually). Republicans (or, at least, the old-school Reagan ones), know full well that reducing tax rates dramatically stimulates economic activity. Heck, even JFK was a staunch supporter of the capital gains tax reduction.

TERRORISM: Democrats believe that, if we just leave the terrorists alone, they will be more than happy to live and let live. Think Chamberlain's appeasement prior to WWII.
Republicans believe that terrorists must be destroyed. Think Churchill.

MINIMUM WAGE: This one is so stupid as to just be beyond the pale. If raising the minimum wage is a good idea, then why haven't we raised it to $1000 an hour? Because we live in a dynamic world, that's why! Because, as the minimum wage is raised, people alter their behaviors!

You name the issue and it is ALWAYS the same. Static versus dynamic. And, trust me lads, you might like to think that the world is a static one, but, then again, in a static world, we wouldn't be using cameras at all, let alone a brilliant new RED one.

Stephen
 
Wow, where have I been! A political thread!

1. Hillary Clinton will be the Democratic nominee... (whew, thank goodness)

2 She will win the general UNLESS!... the Republican convention is so fractured it becomes brokered. Then, the Republicans will eventually decide on Condoleeza Rice as their nominee, and she will beat Hillary. Either way, the country has its best and most experienced protector in the White House.
 
You name the issue and it is ALWAYS the same. Static versus dynamic.

That's the craziest analogy I've ever seen. Republican ignore facts all the time. They are the faith based party.

If they were the fact based party we wouldn't be in Iraq and we would have been prepared for Katrina. Well... unless the fact that they care about most is how to pilfer the American taxpayer.

You can't argue this fact. Under Bush the size of the American government has ballooned like a mushroom cloud. You also can't argue that the Bush administration has managed to spend by itself more than every Democratic administration combined.

You also can't argue that Clinton left us with a surplus.

And after 9-11 1 million Iranians were in the streets with candles calling themselves Americans that day. Bush messed up every good thing he was handed. And the Republican congress went along with it all. They could have stopped him.

The problem with Repubs is they TALK a great game. But give them power and they can't govern. That's the FACT.
 
Then, the Republicans will eventually decide on Condoleeza Rice as their nominee, and she will beat Hillary. Either way, the country has its best and most experienced protector in the White House.

Just what we need.... Another ex-oil executive....
 
Obama's Health care plan is the only sane one of the bunch:

The Problem

Millions of Americans are uninsured or underinsured because of rising medical costs: 47 million Americans — including nearly 9 million children — lack health insurance with no signs of this trend slowing down.

Health care costs are skyrocketing: : Health insurance premiums have risen 4 times faster than wages over the past 6 years.

Too little is spent on prevention and public health: The nation faces epidemics of obesity and chronic diseases as well as new threats of pandemic flu and bioterrorism. Yet despite all of this less than 4 cents of every health care dollar is spent on prevention and public health.
Barack Obama's Plan
Quality, Affordable and Portable Coverage for All

* Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features:
1. Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
2. Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.
3. Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles.
4. Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.
5. Simplified paperwork and reined in health costs.
6. Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.
7. Portability and choice. Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.
8. Quality and efficiency. Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.
* National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.
* Employer Contribution: Employers that do not offer or make a meaningful contribution to the cost of quality health coverage for their employees will be required to contribute a percentage of payroll toward the costs of the national plan. Small employers that meet certain revenue thresholds will be exempt.
* Mandatory Coverage of Children: Obama will require that all children have health care coverage. Obama will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage, including allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents' plans.
* Expansion Of Medicaid and SCHIP: Obama will expand eligibility for the Medicaid and SCHIP programs and ensure that these programs continue to serve their critical safety net function.
* Flexibility for State Plans: Due to federal inaction, some states have taken the lead in health care reform. The Obama plan builds on these efforts and does not replace what states are doing. States can continue to experiment, provided they meet the minimum standards of the national plan.

Lower Costs by Modernizing The U.S. Health Care System

* Reducing Costs of Catastrophic Illnesses for Employers and Their Employees: Catastrophic health expenditures account for a high percentage of medical expenses for private insurers. The Obama plan would reimburse employer health plans for a portion of the catastrophic costs they incur above a threshold if they guarantee such savings are used to reduce the cost of workers' premiums.
* Helping Patients:
1. Support disease management programs. Seventy five percent of total health care dollars are spent on patients with one or more chronic conditions, such as diabetes, heart disease and high blood pressure. Obama will require that providers that participate in the new public plan, Medicare or the Federal Employee Health Benefits Program (FEHBP) utilize proven disease management programs. This will improve quality of care, give doctors better information and lower costs.
2. Coordinate and integrate care. Over 133 million Americans have at least one chronic disease and these chronic conditions cost a staggering $1.7 trillion yearly. Obama will support implementation of programs and encourage team care that will improve coordination and integration of care of those with chronic conditions.
3. Require full transparency about quality and costs. Obama will require hospitals and providers to collect and publicly report measures of health care costs and quality, including data on preventable medical errors, nurse staffing ratios, hospital-acquired infections, and disparities in care. Health plans will also be required to disclose the percentage of premiums that go to patient care as opposed to administrative costs.
* Ensuring Providers Deliver Quality Care:
1. Promote patient safety. Obama will require providers to report preventable medical errors and support hospital and physician practice improvement to prevent future occurrences.
2. Align incentives for excellence. Both public and private insurers tend to pay providers based on the volume of services provided, rather than the quality or effectiveness of care. Providers who see patients enrolled in the new public plan, the National Health Insurance Exchange, Medicare and FEHBP will be rewarded for achieving performance thresholds on outcome measures.
3. Comparative effectiveness research. Obama will establish an independent institute to guide reviews and research on comparative effectiveness, so that Americans and their doctors will have the accurate and objective information they need to make the best decisions for their health and well-being.
4. Tackle disparities in health care. Obama will tackle the root causes of health disparities by addressing differences in access to health coverage and promoting prevention and public health, both of which play a major role in addressing disparities. He will also challenge the medical system to eliminate inequities in health care through quality measurement and reporting, implementation of effective interventions such as patient navigation programs, and diversification of the health workforce.
5. Reform medical malpractice. Obama will strengthen antitrust laws to prevent insurers from overcharging physicians for their malpractice insurance and will promote new models for addressing errors that improve patient safety, strengthen the doctor-patient relationship and reduce the need for malpractice suits.
* Lowering Costs Through Investment in Electronic Health Information Technology Systems: Most medical records are still stored on paper, which makes it hard to coordinate care, measure quality or reduce medical errors and which costs twice as much as electronic claims. Obama will invest $10 billion a year over the next five years to move the U.S. health care system to broad adoption of standards-based electronic health information systems, including electronic health records, and will phase in requirements for full implementation of health IT. Obama will ensure that patients' privacy is protected.
* Lowering Costs by Increasing Competition in the Insurance and Drug Markets: The insurance business today is dominated by a small group of large companies that has been gobbling up their rivals. There have been over 400 health care mergers in the last 10 years, and just two companies dominate a full third of the national market. These changes were supposed to make the industry more efficient, but instead premiums have skyrocketed by over 87 percent.
1. Barack Obama will prevent companies from abusing their monopoly power through unjustified price increases. His plan will force insurers to pay out a reasonable share of their premiums for patient care instead of keeping exorbitant amounts for profits and administration. His new National Health Exchange will help increase competition by insurers.
2. Lower prescription drug costs. The second-fastest growing type of health expenses is prescription drugs. Pharmaceutical companies are selling the exact same drugs in Europe and Canada but charging Americans more than double the price. Obama will allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Obama will also repeal the ban that prevents the government from negotiating with drug companies, which could result in savings as high as $30 billion. Finally, Obama will work to increase the use of generic drugs in Medicare, Medicaid, and FEHBP and prohibit big name drug companies from keeping generics out of markets.
 
Fight for New Initiatives

* Advance the Biomedical Research Field: As a result of biomedical research the prevention, early detection and treatment of diseases such as cancer and heart disease is better today than any other time in history. Barack Obama has consistently supported funding for the national institutes of health and the national science foundation. Obama strongly supports investments in biomedical research, as well as medical education and training in health-related fields, because it provides the foundation for new therapies and diagnostics. Obama has been a champion of research in cancer, mental health, health disparities, global health, women and children's health, and veterans' health. As president, Obama will strengthen funding for biomedical research, and better improve the efficiency of that research by improving coordination both within government and across government/private/non-profit partnerships. An Obama administration will ensure that we translate scientific progress into improved approaches to disease prevention, early detection and therapy that is available for all Americans.
* Fight AIDS Worldwide. There are 40 million people across the planet infected with HIV/AIDS. As president, Obama will continue to be a global leader in the fight against AIDS. Obama believes in working across party lines to combat this epidemic and recently joined Senator Sam Brownback (R-KS) at a large California evangelical church to promote greater investment in the global AIDS battle.
* Support Americans with Disabilities: As a former civil rights lawyer, Barack Obama knows firsthand the importance of strong protections for minority communities in our society. Obama is committed to strengthening and better enforcing the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) so that future generations of Americans with disabilities have equal rights and opportunities. Obama believes we must restore the original legislative intent of the ADA in the wake of court decisions that have restricted the interpretation of this landmark legislation.

Barack Obama is also committed to ensuring that disabled Americans receive Medicaid and Medicare benefits in a low-cost, effective and timely manner. Recognizing that many individuals with disabilities rely on Medicare, Obama worked with Senator Ken Salazar (D-CO) to urge the department of health and human services to provide clear and reliable information on the Medicare prescription drug benefit and to ensure that the Medicare recipients were protected from fraudulent claims by marketers and drug plan agents.
* Improve Mental Health Care. Mental illness affects approximately one in five American families. The National Alliance on Mental Illness estimates that untreated mental illnesses cost the U.S. more than $100 billion per year. As president, Obama will support mental health parity so that coverage for serious mental illnesses are provided on the same terms and conditions as other illnesses and diseases.
* Protect Our Children from Lead Poisoning. More than 430,000 American children have dangerously high levels of lead in their blood. Lead can cause irreversible brain damage, learning disabilities, behavioral problems, and, at very high levels, seizures, coma and death. As president, Obama will protect children from lead poisoning by requiring that child care facilities be lead-safe within five years.
* Reduce Risks of Mercury Pollution. More than five million women of childbearing age have high levels of toxic mercury in their blood, and approximately 630,000 newborns are born at risk every year. Barack Obama has a plan to significantly reduce the amount of mercury that is deposited in oceans, lakes, and rivers, which in turn would reduce the amount of mercury in fish.
* Support Americans with Autism. More than one million Americans have autism, a complex neurobiological condition that has a range of impacts on thinking, feeling, language, and the ability to relate to others. As diagnostic criteria broaden and awareness increases, more cases of autism have been recognized across the country. Barack Obama believes that we can do more to help autistic Americans and their families understand and live with autism. He has been a strong supporter of more than $1 billion in federal funding for autism research on the root causes and treatments, and he believes that we should increase funding for the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act to truly ensure that no child is left behind.

More than anything, autism remains a profound mystery with a broad spectrum of effects on autistic individuals, their families, loved ones, the community, and education and health care systems. Obama believes that the government and our communities should work together to provide a helping hand to autistic individuals and their families.

Barack Obama's Record

* Health Insurance: In 2003, Barack Obama sponsored and passed legislation that expanded health care coverage to 70,000 kids and 84,000 adults. In the U.S. Senate, Obama cosponsored the Healthy Kids Act of 2007 and the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) Reauthorization Act of 2007 to ensure that more American children have affordable health care coverage.
* Women's Health: Obama worked to pass a number of laws in Illinois and Washington to improve the health of women. His accomplishments include creating a task force on cervical cancer, providing greater access to breast and cervical cancer screenings, and helping improve prenatal and premature birth services.
 
Republicans (or, at least, the old-school Reagan ones), know full well that reducing tax rates dramatically stimulates economic activity.

Well, that explains why the economy is doing so well these days, after all those Bush tax cuts...

I think a more apt description of Republicans is not that they think dynamically... but that they think simplistically about things like tax cuts, defense, etc. because there is obviously some middle ground between starting wars in the Middle East and appeasing terrorists, or that economics are a little more complex than just cutting taxes to stimulate the economy. Reducing complex issues into black and white choices works for extremists on both sides, but most of us have to deal with the real world...

And you'd think the Republicans would understand that running a government on credit rather than balancing revenue with expenses is not a good idea. The Republicans controlled all branches of the government for six years, so why didn't they do anything to create a responsible budget? It's a little late to blame the recently elected Democratic congress for this budgetary fiasco. It's this simplistic thinking of cut taxes, cut taxes, cut taxes, without in tandem finding a practical way of financing the federal government, that has created this morass that is dragging down the economy. This is why we need practical leadership, not a bunch of ideologues.

Starting a trillion dollar war while simultaneously cutting taxes, with no plan to pay for the war... doesn't this strike anyone else as poor planning??? Any other president who has taken us into war generally looked for ways of financing that war.
 
Also, two other things:

Barack has all the experience he needs to be an effective leader. The fact that some people still believe Hillary's attacks on this issue is hilarious.

Bush is no conservative. I'm extremely liberal on social issues, but conservative on fiscal issues (I voted for Nader in 00 and 04, and no I won't apologize). Bush's spending is out of control and indebting our country to China will have shocking ramifications in the future.
 
Just what we need.... Another ex-oil executive....
One of them was an oil executive? I had no idea. GREAT!!! With the world running out of energy we NEED more oil executives... and refineries and drilling rigs etc. ad infinitum. At least, until the ethanol stop gap kicks in and tides us over until Hydrogen-from-water hoses becomes ubiquitous.
 
I once met a young woman with MS who struggled daily to make the walk from her apartment door to the bus stop down the street, and with no hope of getting better probably, only worse with time. Try telling someone like her that all she needs to do is work harder and she'll be able to live comfortably in a house. And this is someone who just finished collage. Now imagine someone dirt-poor who is also hit with other impediments that even you or I would find a staggering challenge to overcome. It's a big lie that everyone can take care of themselves. There will always be people who need assistance of some sort, whether or not it's their own fault.

Don't get me wrong, I want to help people like this. But the problem is our government helps too many people who are just lazy (and the government doesn't encourage them to be less lazy.) I have a question...who until the 30's in our country helped out the poor and disabled? It wasn't the government, it was our non-profit/religious organizations that did the load of the work (as it should be.) I would be okay with a system where I could opt in/out of (I made the money, shouldn't I decide how I want to save it?)

I would love to see an overhaul of the welfare system also. Right now if you make over certain amount per month then your dropped down to $0. That's absurd! How do you expect anyone to get off welfare if you penalize them for trying?!

I just believe that PEOPLE, not government should step up and help other people.

Matthew
 
One of them was an oil executive? I had no idea. GREAT!!! With the world running out of energy we NEED more oil executives... and refineries and drilling rigs etc. ad infinitum. At least, until the ethanol stop gap kicks in and tides us over until Hydrogen-from-water hoses becomes ubiquitous.

5/7/91-1/15/01: Director of the Chevron Corporation, one of the world's largest and most powerful oil companies. Her decade-long stint ended seven days before being appointed by President--and former fellow oil-company executive--George W. Bush as National Security Advisor. A few months later Chevron changed the name of its its largest oil tanker, the "Condoleezza Rice" (which it had named in her honor in 1995), to the "Altair Voyager". A Chevron spokesman stated, "We made the change to eliminate unnecessary attention caused by the vessel's original name".

I am a big fan of Hydrogen-from-water.

Use solar and wind to generate the electricity to run a current through sea water to make hydrogen for fuel-cells.
 
Obama will allow Americans to buy their medicines from other developed countries if the drugs are safe and prices are lower outside the U.S. Obama will also repeal the ban that prevents the government from negotiating with drug companies, which could result in savings as high as $30 billion.

When the Republicans wouldn't allow the government to negotiate the best prices on medicare drugs you knew they were bought and paid for. I hope Obama can pull that change off.

When it comes to medicine capitalism doesn't work. Imagine if the local fire department was a private company that maximized profits... it only got paid when it put a fire out. Bet you'd see a lot more fires. Nobody's arguing socialized Fire Dept's are a bad thing. Nobody argues the government doesn't work there. Huh.

Medical emergencies are like fires. Medical prevention reduces emergencies. I think medical lawsuits need to go away too. Malpractice insurance prices are an expense doctors shouldn't need to pass on to consumers.

Huckabee it probably the Repubs best chance. I think Edwards would trounce any Republican and that's what all the polls indicate right now. Guliani would get killed in a national election. Hillary will probably win if elected because of the female vote. In the end, she'd be the first woman and I don't think many would vote against that. Obama is interesting... and he'll probably win too.

It's the Dems election all around to lose. The Republicans, especially in Congress will need a miracle to not lose seats and there ain't no miracles on the horizon.
 
The United Nations Human Development Index is a flawed but interesting yardstick that measures development not only in terms of GDP, but also literacy rates and lifespan.

The United States is the ONLY country in the top 20 that doesn't have some form of universal health coverage.

By the way, we rank 12th. Embarrassing that we're the richest country in the world and we don't take care of our sick.
 
5/7/91-1/15/01: Director of the Chevron Corporation, one of the world's largest and most powerful oil companies. Her decade-long stint ended seven days before being appointed by President--and former fellow oil-company executive--George W. Bush as National Security Advisor. A few months later Chevron changed the name of its its largest oil tanker, the "Condoleezza Rice" (which it had named in her honor in 1995), to the "Altair Voyager". A Chevron spokesman stated, "We made the change to eliminate unnecessary attention caused by the vessel's original name".

I am a big fan of Hydrogen-from-water.

Use solar and wind to generate the electricity to run a current through sea water to make hydrogen for fuel-cells.

I think they can bypass that pretty soon if not now. Can't remember all the details but it seems like it was a by-product from mining aluminium being recombined with a bar of aluminium in the proper ratio that when placed in a tank of water would bubble out the hydrogen, and the gallate, or gallinium (the aluminum smelting by-product) could be reused. I think even most of the aluminum could also be recovered. And of course, the water itself that was lef over could be captured.

If memory serves, they predicted that portable generators and lawnmowers running on this technology would be available as early as this year. I posted a link to the article on REDuser.net a few months ago, so search backwards and there will be a link to it.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top