JonathanF
Well-known member
Jim,
Let me start by saying that so far our experience with the camera has been very positive. There was a bit of a learning curve, but we're making incredible imagery, better than anything we've shot on either CineAlta or Varicam before.
As most of us on the crew are feature film veterans now working on docs, we love having a camera that allows us to use proper glass and produces film like images. Hats off for a job well done. Most of the FUD you see online about the cameras is just that. Our experience has been exceptionally good and all the alarmist crap online about not 4k or other such nonsense is pure bull$h*& and we are very pleased to be working with Red. We are making world class images and the camera (save for some easily resolved ergo issues) is a pleasure to work with.
In a couple weeks we have a 2 camera shoot, a few days on remote location, some of it with a head of state. We will not get a second take or a second chance to shoot one frame of what we're filming.
Both cameras are Red's of recent vintage (current hardware revision/and build 17). It's our second shoot in this location for a doc series that's being shot all over the world in highly varied and remote locations.
So on to the real meat of the thread:
Our first problem is with thermal expansion issues on the mount when shooting with 25C temp shifts from our first morning take to mid afternoon (we experienced this directly on our last shoot in this location). This remains a problem for those of us shooting with very fast, highly sensitive glass (like us with our Master Primes), and it needs some solution for the current camera, not a camera we may be able to buy in 6 months or a year.
I realize there has been a bit of discussion on this but very few people, including many who responded in threads on this topic in the past, are working with the kind of glass that's really going to show off this issue in conditions where it's likely to surface. We backfocus checked the cameras in 28C conditions in town at sealevel with our 16 MP, and we were dead on, but at 3C at 6000 ft we are seriously off. Later the same day when the temp again rose into the 20's we were nearly back on our marks. My focus puller is a very talented kid, maybe one of the best we've ever worked with, so this has not yet presented a serious issue, but there are many less controlled situations in our future where this is going to be a real problem for us. Especially crane or eng work. We can't be checking backfous twice a day when we're shooting.
I'd love to know what our options are and if any future update to the mounts will become available for those of us working under highly variable environmental conditions. P+S has a mount that seems to address this according to some we have spoken to, but the mounts invalidate the warranty, not something we want to do. Can you offer up a solution for us for the present cameras?
Our second, main issue today, is that we still have no clarification on proper technical specifications on the sound subsystem for the camera with the newly updated sound boards (or even how they differ from the original ones).
A number of users have been requesting some clarification on a number of issues relating to the sound with the new boards and our sound guy is not a native english speaker, is 11 hours away from you (timezone) and he really wants something he can put in his kit he can use as reference.
We also need technical specifications on cables, etc.
The thread: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26140&page=3 details some of these but there is a very real need for some updates to docs.
I know there is also the argument that there should be a DIT or educated AC there to answer a lot of these questions when they arise, but we choose crew for a host of reasons, compatibility, skill, artistic talent, etc. They work on many different camera systems over the course of the year and aspects of the camera, technical specs in particular, are always a moving target. If you are a 1st AC, sound engineer, or whomever, you can't possibly keep this all committed to memory or be 100% current.
As a director I wouldn't ever dream of demanding such a thing from them either. Good crew may not always have the answer, but they will know where to find it. They just need to have it available to them from the manufacturer.
Here's the other component of our issue; the forums don't work for us as a means of technical support, were filming in remote locations with no real internet service, if we are lucky we get service once a week. To make matters worse, we're on the other side of the world, so our day is your night. When you have a 5.30am call time each day you're not going to be up at 1am to call you guys up when the office in CA opens up for the day. I need my guys to sleep because they need to be fresh and alert when we're filming, not exhausted from lack of sleep. Especially when we're shooting 7 days a week, often for two or three weeks straight.
We love the cameras, we will continue to shoot with them, but in order for our user experience to 'be all it can be' we would really appreciate it if some additional effort be put into technical documentation.
When we have new crew members we would love to hand good solid documentation to them instead of pointing them at a web forum or google. It's just not an acceptable way to educate our crew, especially when a new, often experienced crew member just needs one piece of technical info to confirm something on a camera system they have not worked on for any extended period of time.
It's all about how we make the most of the time we have on location, and there will always be unanswered questions with a new camera system that you can't forsee when you're in pre-pro.
Again, we love the cameras, we are using them almost exclusively now instead of Varicam or CineAlta, (and 16mm is now all but a memory), we just need a few more tools to best take advantage of them.
Thanks in advance,
J
Let me start by saying that so far our experience with the camera has been very positive. There was a bit of a learning curve, but we're making incredible imagery, better than anything we've shot on either CineAlta or Varicam before.
As most of us on the crew are feature film veterans now working on docs, we love having a camera that allows us to use proper glass and produces film like images. Hats off for a job well done. Most of the FUD you see online about the cameras is just that. Our experience has been exceptionally good and all the alarmist crap online about not 4k or other such nonsense is pure bull$h*& and we are very pleased to be working with Red. We are making world class images and the camera (save for some easily resolved ergo issues) is a pleasure to work with.
In a couple weeks we have a 2 camera shoot, a few days on remote location, some of it with a head of state. We will not get a second take or a second chance to shoot one frame of what we're filming.
Both cameras are Red's of recent vintage (current hardware revision/and build 17). It's our second shoot in this location for a doc series that's being shot all over the world in highly varied and remote locations.
So on to the real meat of the thread:
Our first problem is with thermal expansion issues on the mount when shooting with 25C temp shifts from our first morning take to mid afternoon (we experienced this directly on our last shoot in this location). This remains a problem for those of us shooting with very fast, highly sensitive glass (like us with our Master Primes), and it needs some solution for the current camera, not a camera we may be able to buy in 6 months or a year.
I realize there has been a bit of discussion on this but very few people, including many who responded in threads on this topic in the past, are working with the kind of glass that's really going to show off this issue in conditions where it's likely to surface. We backfocus checked the cameras in 28C conditions in town at sealevel with our 16 MP, and we were dead on, but at 3C at 6000 ft we are seriously off. Later the same day when the temp again rose into the 20's we were nearly back on our marks. My focus puller is a very talented kid, maybe one of the best we've ever worked with, so this has not yet presented a serious issue, but there are many less controlled situations in our future where this is going to be a real problem for us. Especially crane or eng work. We can't be checking backfous twice a day when we're shooting.
I'd love to know what our options are and if any future update to the mounts will become available for those of us working under highly variable environmental conditions. P+S has a mount that seems to address this according to some we have spoken to, but the mounts invalidate the warranty, not something we want to do. Can you offer up a solution for us for the present cameras?
Our second, main issue today, is that we still have no clarification on proper technical specifications on the sound subsystem for the camera with the newly updated sound boards (or even how they differ from the original ones).
A number of users have been requesting some clarification on a number of issues relating to the sound with the new boards and our sound guy is not a native english speaker, is 11 hours away from you (timezone) and he really wants something he can put in his kit he can use as reference.
We also need technical specifications on cables, etc.
The thread: http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=26140&page=3 details some of these but there is a very real need for some updates to docs.
I know there is also the argument that there should be a DIT or educated AC there to answer a lot of these questions when they arise, but we choose crew for a host of reasons, compatibility, skill, artistic talent, etc. They work on many different camera systems over the course of the year and aspects of the camera, technical specs in particular, are always a moving target. If you are a 1st AC, sound engineer, or whomever, you can't possibly keep this all committed to memory or be 100% current.
As a director I wouldn't ever dream of demanding such a thing from them either. Good crew may not always have the answer, but they will know where to find it. They just need to have it available to them from the manufacturer.
Here's the other component of our issue; the forums don't work for us as a means of technical support, were filming in remote locations with no real internet service, if we are lucky we get service once a week. To make matters worse, we're on the other side of the world, so our day is your night. When you have a 5.30am call time each day you're not going to be up at 1am to call you guys up when the office in CA opens up for the day. I need my guys to sleep because they need to be fresh and alert when we're filming, not exhausted from lack of sleep. Especially when we're shooting 7 days a week, often for two or three weeks straight.
We love the cameras, we will continue to shoot with them, but in order for our user experience to 'be all it can be' we would really appreciate it if some additional effort be put into technical documentation.
When we have new crew members we would love to hand good solid documentation to them instead of pointing them at a web forum or google. It's just not an acceptable way to educate our crew, especially when a new, often experienced crew member just needs one piece of technical info to confirm something on a camera system they have not worked on for any extended period of time.
It's all about how we make the most of the time we have on location, and there will always be unanswered questions with a new camera system that you can't forsee when you're in pre-pro.
Again, we love the cameras, we are using them almost exclusively now instead of Varicam or CineAlta, (and 16mm is now all but a memory), we just need a few more tools to best take advantage of them.
Thanks in advance,
J
. When in prep we did call the tech line and we got some useful answers, but when the audio issues surfaced we were far afield, no internet and sketchy at best mobile service. We did however have the manual.