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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Please advise on this proposed storage system for post production

M

Michael Holmes

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After much searching, this is my list for a new post system to go with a new Weapon Magnesium (I cancelled the Scarlet-W order and took the plunge on the Weapon Magnesium).
I need reassurance this is pretty good, or advice on where it is weak. I’d like to know now rather than discover later.

This is a small operation for documentary/commercials/indie.

The proposed post system would be:

  • Computer: Current Mac Pro (2.7Gh 12-core, 64GB memory, 1TB flash storage, dual D700 GPUs)
  • Drives for Processing (16TB): G-Technology 16TB G-SPEED Studio Thunderbolt 2 External Storage (4x4TB)
  • Drives for Daily backup (32TB): Four Seagate Archive 8TB HDD SATA III Hard Drives in an OWC Thunderbay 4 Four-Bay Thunderbolt 2 RAID Array (4x8TB)
  • Tape for archiving: Tolis ArGest LTO-6 Thunderbolt-Ready 2-Bay Desktop Cube.
I figured the G-Tech 16TB would be adequate for rendering, but now I’m thinking I should go on up to 32TB to match the backup size. The extra cost is only $1,000 for larger enterprise-grade drives and G-Tech claims the 32TB system has faster transfer rates than the 16TB system (700MB/s vs. 660MB/s). The transfer rate difference doesn’t make sense to me, but anyway a small price for doubling the capacity. So, I’m now thinking 32TB.

The on-site data handling system would be:

  • One 1TB Mini-Mag, Two 512GB Mini-Mags
  • RED Station RED Mini-Mag
  • 2012 MacBook Pro Retina
  • Two Samsung 2TB T3 Portable SSDs (USB 3.0)
I’m now thinking maybe I should add a 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] Samsung 2TB SSD for a total of 6TB for transfer from the Mini-Mags.

Question
What would you change............w/o having to spend a ton more $?.

In particular:
- Go to 32TB for G-Tech processing ($1,000 more)?
- Add a 3rd Samsung 2TB SSD so I have a total of 6TB for receiving on-site data from Mini-Mags ($780 more)?

Thanks very much for your help.
..............................................................

I now see I should have posted this in the Post Production Hardware forum.
I will try to figure out how to move it.
Sorry.
 
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I have a 12 core 64 meg mac trashcan with d700 and also a 2012 macbook pro retina. I primarily use the trashcan for my premiere/AE flow (also for doing some maya/plantfactory stuff). I have promise drives that I thunderbolt together instead of the g-technology, it seems I'm always running low on disk ... so having multiple g-speeds is real convenient, and I agree that the 32 terrabyte would be probably better. Overall I think you'll have a awesome system that will be very stable. I btw tend to use the trashcan remotely instead of the macbook pro. I also do two backups of everything in my DIT daily r3d process(i.e. no mini-mag is released until the 2nd backup finishes and is good), so having larger raid drive for the second backup might be a bit better then a 3rd samsung. I'm not sure if most people do two backups of the mini-mag before releasing the mini-mag back to production, and this is a seperate backup then what I have for post.
 
Patrick,
Thank you for the input.
I have not provided for two copies in the field before releasing the Mini-Mag. I need to think through that. I had hoped to avoid taking a stack of hard drives into the field.

I can't figure out how to move this post to Post Production Hardware Forum. I contacted webmaster, but no response.
So, I will post over there also.
I hope this doesn't break any rules.
 
I would wait for Thunderbolt 3 if you can. Thunderbolt 3 supports external GPU, though we don't know how Apple will implement it.
LTFS seems to be the standard for LTO. Go with LTO-7
 
Sergei Franklin said:
I would wait for Thunderbolt 3 if you can. Thunderbolt 3 supports external GPU, though we don't know how Apple will implement it.
LTFS seems to be the standard for LTO. Go with LTO-7
Click to expand...

Here is my logic, although you may not agree. Please tell me if I am incorrect:

(1) Thunderbolt 3: I need a system now. Is there any clear time frame on Apple acting on Thunderbolt 3? For sure this year? Will Thunderbolt 3 really improve data transfer speeds during rendering when the hard drives limit? I could be sitting around a long time and not end up with much for it, other than a more expensive system. Just my thinking at this point, although I can certainly be convinced.

(2) On LTO-6:
(a) There are still issues with LTO-7 performance
(b) It’s not a lot faster than LTO-6
(c) The LTO-7 media is more than 5x the cost of LTO-6 media, yet a single LTO-7 tape only provides 2.2x the capacity of a single LTO-6 tape
(d) In 18-24 months as the LTO-7 media pricing drops, this may change, but then you’re still only looking at LTO-7 from the capacity point rather than the speed.
So, I am taking the LTO-6 route as safer and lower cost for the next couple of years.
 
Well, I searched around the forum and now you have me nervous about Thunderbolt 3.
The difference in TB2 and TB3 is greater than I realized.

I have a mid-2010 Mac Pro, 2x3.33GHz 12-core with GeForce GTX 570 graphics card that I have used with other cameras. It has done well in the past with HD (using both FCPX and DaVinci Resolve), but I have been assuming it would struggle with Weapon 6K data.
I would think I could somehow muddle through until something new comes from Apple.
I wouldn't want to spend a lot of $ on gear that wouldn't work with TB3, but I could use three internal Seagate Archive 8TB drives for processing (24TB).
Not sure what I'd do about backup.

I'll post a separate question on buy vs. wait.
 
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A lot depends on whether you can wait or not. I don't think Thunderbolt 3 will be out from Apple until the fall, maybe even the end of the year. This British news site has some theories:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/new-mac-pro-2016-release-date-apple-ditched-discontinued-3536364/

I agree that Thunderbolt 3 could be a game changer, particularly if it would allow very fast external GPUs to be added to the stock Mac Pro. My advice if you have to work right now is buy something cheap and used, good enough to get you by, use that for the next 8-9 months, and plan to get rid of it and buy an upgrade in January 2017.

Note that the Seagate Archive drives are cheap and slow. You need to spend a lot more money and get fast drives if you intended to do serious 6K work. Me personally, I'm fine with just watching 1/4-res material in HD because I know I can trust the monitor. In truth, many, many major Hollywood features just cut with HD proxies and don't go back to the 4K/5K/whatever originals until the very end, when it's all conformed. And there are numerous blockbusters that eschew raw files entirely and just use DPX or EXR files, because of the VFX workflow.
 
Marc Wielage said:
A lot depends on whether you can wait or not. I don't think Thunderbolt 3 will be out from Apple until the fall, maybe even the end of the year. This British news site has some theories:

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/mac/new-mac-pro-2016-release-date-apple-ditched-discontinued-3536364/

I agree that Thunderbolt 3 could be a game changer, particularly if it would allow very fast external GPUs to be added to the stock Mac Pro. My advice if you have to work right now is buy something cheap and used, good enough to get you by, use that for the next 8-9 months, and plan to get rid of it and buy an upgrade in January 2017.

Note that the Seagate Archive drives are cheap and slow. You need to spend a lot more money and get fast drives if you intended to do serious 6K work. Me personally, I'm fine with just watching 1/4-res material in HD because I know I can trust the monitor. In truth, many, many major Hollywood features just cut with HD proxies and don't go back to the 4K/5K/whatever originals until the very end, when it's all conformed. And there are numerous blockbusters that eschew raw files entirely and just use DPX or EXR files, because of the VFX workflow.
Click to expand...
I really like my trashcan mac pro, I just wish the gpu was upgradeable. I really doubt the mac pro will be upgraded without the new AMD GPU, which I hear from the AMD side it will be ready early 2017 and worth the wait(i.e. is like a lower powered Pascal - I do guess apple can jump ship on AMD and go with Pascal ... otherwise theyed have to ship with a extremely old gpu technology).
 
You can get a Atto SAS PCIe card for your Mac and a LTO drive (SAS is standard on all LTO drives. (LTO-6 are around $2000, LTO-7 $3000).
When you upgrade your mac you can get a thunderbolt to SAS adaptor.
 
Waiting for TB3 over USB-TypeC connectors could be pretty frustrating in 2016. That said, I would not buy a new computer that does not have USB-TypeC ports that are capable of supporting TB3 down the road. IMO, the USB-C connector will become the most common form factor for the next 5 years or more as it can handle 100w of power, as well as multiple signaling protocols - like TB3.

Suggest you look at good quality 3rd party enclosures for bare Samsung SSDs rather than their pre-packaged external offerings. All metal, less cost and some models include legacy ports that might be handy. YMMV.

Cheers - #19
 
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