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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Playback on Music Video

Clayton Taylor

Clayton Taylor

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Can anyone share what setup or what they use for audio playback when shooting music videos?
 
Clayton Taylor said:
Can anyone share what setup or what they use for audio playback when shooting music videos?
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No need to hire sound mixer lol just get a beats by dre pill the big one. Ill use a dj to spin if its a big set however make suer they don't speed up or slow down the song it will be a nightmare but me I just use this beat pill xl shot MGK and many other big artist with it. Its loud and works fine plus you can use your phone for audio source and battery life last long real long on the XL
 
In a NLE make a new sequence, making sure that it's the same frame rate as you are planning on shooting in. Then put the song with a 10 second countdown and beeps onto the timeline and add timecode. I even list the parts of the song. Intro, Verse, Chorus etc. Output that sequence as a video file, load it onto a smart phone or tablet. Hook up the phone output of the playback choice to a wireless microphone set-up and the other side goes into a battery operated amp or sound system.

When you want to start a take, playback the phone, show it to the cameras so they can see the TC roll and that's it. My hands were even used for a music video I did a while back. Even if you can't see the TC then there's the beeps for additional help. Here's the link.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFkYk3kh0HY
 
Marc Wielage said:
Hire a professional sound mixer. Do not attempt to do this yourself if you don't have experience with sound.

Specific methods are discussed here:

http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/12778-music-playback-questions/


http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/9681-music-video-workflow/
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WHAT!? All you need is a boombox CD/Mp3 player 99% of the time. The sound is already recorded. if you can't synch music video rushes by eye you shouldn't be editing music video, but to make things even easier just tape any old crappy mic to your Red to give yourself a guide track.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
WHAT!? All you need is a boombox CD/Mp3 player 99% of the time. The sound is already recorded. if you can't synch music video rushes by eye you shouldn't be editing music video, but to make things even easier just tape any old crappy mic to your Red to give yourself a guide track.
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I've worked on at least 350-400 music videos in my time, some of them very, very major artists (Fleetwood Mac, Sting, Journey, Rolling Stones, you name it), and getting the music playback, speed, and timecode correct is not easy. Read the links I posted.

The problem with playing back music from a non-reference source, like an iPod or a CD player, is that the speed is going to drift over time. Only if you use a referenced time-code source is it 100% reliable and drift-free.
 
I agree with Marc that the other guys idea of playback for a music video, I'm guessing, will lead to some pretty poor results, I also don't think the exact TC correct playback is totally necessary. Every time I've edited a music video my last pass is always for sync. Even if the playback is perfect every time, the artist is lip-syncing and will, most of the time, not be perfect.

That said, I'd expect the last thing you'd want to do is whip out a crappy boom box with a mic taped to your camera to inspire confidence in you clients that you actually know what you're doing.

Good luck.
 
"In a NLE make a new sequence, making sure that it's the same frame rate as you are planning on shooting in. Then put the song with a 10 second countdown and beeps onto the timeline and add timecode. I even list the parts of the song. Intro, Verse, Chorus etc."...... THEN
Export .wav file
Open .wav file in Sound Devices Wave Agent>set timecode to 23:98
Drop .wav onto CF formatted from SD702T
Use 702T with timecode cable to drive "TC Dumb Slate" ie: Deneke TS-1 (2)
 
Isn't it also a question how long each take will be and how much the musicians will be able to do playback at all?

Clayton, go with what you have and don't worry. I think you are passionate enough to invest some sync time later if needed.

My experience with YouTube or Vimeo is, where most music videos stream from, that the sound is often not in synch anyway, if the connection is not fast enough.

BUT -- yes, to have the best equipment can't hurt, but only if the budget for this is not eating up other important things.
 
Dr. Sassi said:
Isn't it also a question how long each take will be and how much the musicians will be able to do playback at all?

Clayton, go with what you have and don't worry. I think you are passionate enough to invest some sync time later if needed.

My experience with YouTube or Vimeo is, where most music videos stream from, that the sound is often not in synch anyway, if the connection is not fast enough.

BUT -- yes, to have the best equipment can't hurt, but only if the budget for this is not eating up other important things.
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i have never seen youtube give synch issues - and certainly this is not an excuse for poor editing.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I've worked on at least 350-400 music videos in my time, some of them very, very major artists (Fleetwood Mac, Sting, Journey, Rolling Stones, you name it), and getting the music playback, speed, and timecode correct is not easy. Read the links I posted.

The problem with playing back music from a non-reference source, like an iPod or a CD player, is that the speed is going to drift over time. Only if you use a referenced time-code source is it 100% reliable and drift-free.
Click to expand...

I have directed many, many music videos for major labels, and the worst I have ever seen is 2 frames of drift over the entire song, which was very easy to fix in the edit, and it only happened once. This might have been an issue in the days of cassette tapes, but seriously, what you talk about is not a real world issue, and the techniques you suggest are a rather silly waste of tiny production budgets.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
I have directed many, many music videos for major labels, and the worst I have ever seen is 2 frames of drift over the entire song, which was very easy to fix in the edit, and it only happened once. This might have been an issue in the days of cassette tapes, but seriously, what you talk about is not a real world issue, and the techniques you suggest are a rather silly waste of tiny production budgets.
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I would agree with Robert. Unless you plan on using one take, from one camera and not cutting away AT ALL, which is HIGHLY UNLIKELY in a music video, then a reference source on a simple (yet loud) stereo with a countdown so the artist can nail the intro is fine and dandy.
 
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Robert Ruffo New said:
I have directed many, many music videos for major labels, and the worst I have ever seen is 2 frames of drift over the entire song, which was very easy to fix in the edit, and it only happened once.
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I guess we were just unlucky, since we had Hollywood union crews who must not have known what they were doing.

The example I've used to demonstrate for film students is:

1) get two iPod Touches (or any two iPods you want)

2) put the same exact song and same file on each iPod

3) cue them up

4) play both iPods together at the exact same time so they start up exactly in sync.


In one minute, they'll be a second out of sync with each other. This is the problem with using non-referenced audio playback. The internal crystal source is generally not accurate enough in a cheap device. It generally works fine in a higher-end laptop or in a dedicated sound recorder with an internal TCXO clock crystal.

Sure, if you're cutting around a lot, you can cover it and just do pull-up edits. But if it's one shot, you'll have to manually either varispeed the audio or make little tiny cuts in it. God help you if it's multiple camera.
 
Marc Wielage said:
I guess we were just unlucky, since we had Hollywood union crews who must not have known what they were doing.

The example I've used to demonstrate for film students is:

1) get two iPod Touches (or any two iPods you want)

2) put the same exact song and same file on each iPod

3) cue them up

4) play both iPods together at the exact same time so they start up exactly in sync.


In one minute, they'll be a second out of sync with each other. This is the problem with using non-referenced audio playback. The internal crystal source is generally not accurate enough in a cheap device. It generally works fine in a higher-end laptop or in a dedicated sound recorder with an internal TCXO clock crystal.

Sure, if you're cutting around a lot, you can cover it and just do pull-up edits. But if it's one shot, you'll have to manually either varispeed the audio or make little tiny cuts in it. God help you if it's multiple camera.
Click to expand...

One second diff in one minute? I have never, ever seen this after 35 music videos total. Just never. Like I said, a few frames, MAX, but we have used only used an iPhone, a CD, and a laptop (Alienware)- never actually tried an Ipod, and IPods (old tech really, at this point) might have had weird behavior in this regard for some reason - no clue. I just tried an iPhone vs my computer, 3 times, and they stayed exactly in synch every time.

Anyway, in 2014, music videos cannot spare budgets for anything that is not absolutely necessary. This had never, ever been an issue, ever so it really is a silly waste of cash to hire a "specialist" for this. Usually we put the trainee PA on playback, using a $200 boombox and, no complaints so far or issues of any kind.

I can;t see how a single shot music video would be all that watchable in most instances, and even then, you could just varispeed the video a frame here or there, for like $40 of post time.
 
Robert Ruffo New said:
One second diff in one minute? I have never, ever seen this after 35 music videos total. Just never. Like I said, a few frames, MAX, but we have used only used an iPhone, a CD, and a laptop (Alienware)- never actually tried an Ipod, and IPods (old tech really, at this point) might have had weird behavior in this regard for some reason - no clue. I just tried an iPhone vs my computer, 3 times, and they stayed exactly in synch every time.

Anyway, in 2014, music videos cannot spare budgets for anything that is not absolutely necessary. This had never, ever been an issue, ever so it really is a silly waste of cash to hire a "specialist" for this. Usually we put the trainee PA on playback, using a $200 boombox and, no complaints so far or issues of any kind.

I can;t see how a single shot music video would be all that watchable in most instances, and even then, you could just varispeed the video a frame here or there, for like $40 of post time.
Click to expand...


Totally agree. I've never seen that much drift between takes when using a basic stereo for playback.
In fact, I've stacked multiple takes on top of each other and then on top of the final audio and they have always been in sync (unless the musician messes up).

As stated; if you have one camera and plan on doing it in one take and never cutting away then you would want to be careful, if not, then don't worry, get your Dr Dre beats pill out and have fun.
 
I usually do it like this:
In the edit bay I put the music track from the artists CD or from a file to the timeline.
Then I make a videolayer with a timecode.
This whole clip is then exported as a MP4 and transfered to my iPad.
On set I hook the iPad to the PA for the sound.
Before and after each clip I hold the iPad in front of the camera for a visual reference of the timecode.
Back in the edit I just edit along the timecode visible in each clip.
This has never failed. Never!
 
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