Pirates 4 Make OR Break RED

[Michael Olsen]

So how are younger generations able to learn the proper way of production unless they come from stacks of cash (which in this recession it's harder to come by)

Less than $10,000 will allow someone with a T2i and access to this forum, the DVXuser forum, and vimeo to learn:
Proper framing (quite close to the standard 35mm)
Proper camera movement (pan/tilt/dolly/slide/glidecam)
Proper manual focusing (either on the barrel or through a FF or FIZ)
Proper exposure (either on the barrel or through a FF or FIZ)
Setting shutter speed and frame rate
Overcranking
The effects of digital ISO on an image
Use of filtration
General differences between primes and zooms
Dual system audio
The need to encode footage for ingestion
Differences between and within codecs (i.e. why is ProRes better for editing than Canon's H.264? And why is the H.264 on more expensive cameras much better than that on the DSLRs as an acquisition codec?)
Basic editing, including color correction and compositing

Now, a t2i is certainly not the be-all end-all of film production. Far from it. We all know the issues. But for someone looking to buy their own kit or for truly poor film schools, it offers a lot of bang for the buck in terms of usability and similarity to cinema cameras, especially when you compare it to things like an HVX or a stock EX-1 without interchangeable lenses and with teeny tiny sensors.

And once someone's learned the basics of things they can trade up or graduate to nicer cameras.

That said, I see POTC4 using RED more a mark of RED's presence than as a "test" of its ability. People don't run out and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on a production if they aren't sure their equipment will work. And if they do...well...

 

[Cid J Salcido Uyarra]

There's a difference between a film school not being able to afford a red and a film school choosing not to buy a red.

http://rtf.utexas.edu/equipment/video/index.html
http://rtf.utexas.edu/equipment/film/index.html

Extensive Film and video selection to choose from, price is not a problem for them.

Wurd, I feel you on that.

I think there's something wrong with that picture. I wonder why they haven't made the jump? They would need teachers to go along with the equipement when they make the switch.

 

[Rob Ruffo]

Wurd, I feel you on that.

I think there's something wrong with that picture. I wonder why they haven't made the jump? They would need teachers to go along with the equipement when they make the switch.

Here at Concordia U (supposedly the best film school in Canada, or among them) many students still cut on Steenbecks (that's actual, physical cutting of negatives). This is useless hippy idiocy administered by clueless professors, who talk about "the wonders of touching film" and other pothead nonsense that will never help students work in the real world. It really is laughable. Those who can't do teach, those who can't teach become program deans.

I'd go as far as saying that the rarity of commercially oriented, reality-aware directors in Canada who nonetheless work with passion and dedication to every frame (such as Reitman, George Mihalka and others) is partly due to the fact that schools like Concodia un-teach common-sense. If only we had Canada's answer to USC we would be way-ahead. in my prigram at Concordia, over 4 years at the end of the 1990s, I got 0 minutes of training on how to deal with actors, and THREE mandatory courses on feminism and cinema, two on "The corporate agenda in American cinema" etc. It was a Marxist-feminist poly-sci course. This is fine, but it's not what I signed up for or got into debt for.

I also didn't need some fatuous windbag telling me that "digital is not CINEMA" with what we all figured was fake French accent.

 

[Joel Kaye]

THREE mandatory courses on feminism

There was probably something in there that might help with actors. :grouphug:

 

[Jack Cooper]

After visiting LA for CineGear I was exposed to all types of shooters the industry is starting to conform or have already established workflows.

The bold and high end DP's will talk all day on how 65mm is the best and how Film has a permanent and functional workflow. If you have a problem with film you can physically see it as opposed to digital it takes some time to find the source of the issue. Electronic media is constantly changing making it harder to archive the media to a proper and future proof codec. Film stays locked up in a fridge and it's a physical copy, doesn't change. Digital requires checking the files every month and transferring to a new drive every year if the data is of that importance. But film is really expensive and you have to be a hard player to roll film all day. All power to them, because Film is the shit but not everyone can afford it.

Then you have the 3D shooters that are taking risks in learning a new language and technique to tell a story in a different medium. The Film guys hate 3D because of glasses, then you lose 1-2 stops of light when you wear the glasses unless the projectors are properly calibrated which they never are unless you have a $5000 3D home theater set up but it's not the same experience like that of IMAX 3D. 3D films are great for exhibit purposes but not 2-3hr films due to comfort factor. Aslo 3D tends to have a false depth of field that can be misleading in certain shots. 3D movies may not take off unless they're in CGI, my guess is 3D video Gaming will save and push 3D to it's limits (New Nintendo 3DS coming out this Fall). I can't wait for the new Crysis 2 that will be in 3D. But as far as movies go 2D is just the bomb and we are so use to that language and fully understand what filmmakers are trying to entail visually with their stories. Personally I thought Dark Knight was a far better experience than Avatar. At the same time I feel 3D will push Digital Cinema to be where it needs to be. Only problem is that 3D takes more time to produce and getting the time to experiment for the right effect for certain scenes (Avatar took forever to make, keep in mind). In a 3D CGI environment it's much easier to experiment than a production with physical people, equipment, and environments.

The final type of shooter and the one with the most controversy is the DSLR. It has taken Canon and the industry by surprise and has opened new opportunities of experimentation that I feel will be the renaissance of movie making and production. Now anyone can afford to tell the story they want with out getting into debt and can finally skip film school, use $30,000 to give it a shot, see where it takes them. The season finally of HOUSE really made the push since the show has a huge reputation and gave it a cinematic feel that drew us closer to the characters that television viewers have never seen before.

With all this being said, due to all the delays and sketchy responses as to when RED will make their final announcement, I feel Pirates 4 will make or break RED. This is the biggest budget RED cameras have seen and they will be put to the test. Salt Water, new workflow, 3D, and RRR Pirates, plus it's Disney they don't fuck around! There is a small place for RED to exist, I find it in the commercial/music video/ and feature films. Not so much on the pro-summer end.

Yet, we are in times where Pro and Prosumer markets are merging and becoming one. Can the Scarlet take up some of this market? I personally don't think so. Yeah higher budget productions will use them but the average person has finally realized that DSLR is the perfect solution. Not only that but from the information I was able to mingle and gather, Canon has a new line of cameras that will set it straight, the best part is it will be as soon as this December if not Q1 of 2011. XL series will receive the 7D sensor and 5D MkII sensor with al the bells and whistles. Then the DSLR will maintain their form factor and price giving us more options like HDSDI out and a better codec which will be MPEG-2 Long-GOP 4:2:2 @ 50Mbps. This is kinda lame I was hoping 4:4:4 would be it, but they want to keep it the same like their XF305 & XF300 so you can shoot with all cameras and not worry about different codecs for seamless editing (Maybe an issue with Scarlets and Epics). Again these are rumors but they make perfect sense, you can decide for yourself.

I really want a RED and I am ready for RAW video but I don't think it's here yet. We are in the Nosferatu stages of film but in the digital realm. The new Epic will not kill celluloid you guys still have a ways to go, sorry, but it's pretty damn close and getting better. I look forward to the day when 65mm Digi exists, that will be the end of all end. Think about it, Digi IMAX! RED screw your Scarlet and Epic go 65mm Digi and show them how it's done! The industry changed faster than you can put out a camera and you are lagging behind. If you can give us an Interchangeable Scarlet since you already have many working prototypes jump the gun and we can wait for the Fixed. You have no time to spare considering the competition. Plus who knows what Sony and Panasonic have up their sleeves.

You are fighting a hard fight and I just hope you guys can make it through to the end while becoming a major player in the industry even though you think you already have. But can you maintain it?

Best of luck to the RED TEAM don't let me down I have much hope in you guys.

Cid

Cid, what was the purpose of your post... Questions, advise, observations..?

Lacking any further clarity to the paragraphs above, we invite you to Houston to experience how Red is being used as an effective tool, today, in our industries.

We can arrange set visits to observe the tool being used to capture amazing footage, and we can demonstrate post-production workflows using the latest Adobe products working in native 4K as recently as last night.

Please PM us. In the spirit of the RedUser Forum, we offer our assistance to help you achieve commercial success.

 

[Jack Cooper]

Cid -

The thing is .... RED ONE is already a proven camera. An Oscar and a couple of significant box office runs - countless critically acclaimed projects at all budget levels .... etc. etc. etc. ....

Mark, My personal favorite has been the Book of Eli. Amazing use of the Red Tool kit for sure. There may be 7000+ owners and even more users who agree with all your points.

Cid, still not sure what the point of your post was...

 

[Jay Gannon]

Cid, what was the purpose of your post... Questions, advise, observations..?

Lacking any further clarity to the paragraphs above, we invite you to Houston to experience how Red is being used as an effective tool, today, in our industries.

We can arrange set visits to observe the tool being used to capture amazing footage, and we can demonstrate post-production workflows using the latest Adobe products working in native 4K as recently as last night.

Please PM us. In the spirit of the RedUser Forum, we offer our assistance to help you achieve commercial success.

Thats a mighty nice offer Jack. Nice one.