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  • Hey all, just changed over the backend after 15 years I figured time to give it a bit of an update, its probably gonna be a bit weird for most of you and i am sure there is a few bugs to work out but it should kinda work the same as before... hopefully :)

Pirates 4 Make OR Break RED

I don't think you need a full crew to get a good image out of a scarlet, but it wouldn't hurt obviously. Yes the camera and the work flow are advanced but that is what some shooters across all ages want and are ready for. Dealing with R3D's is not that hard as long as you know what your delivery format is and what work flow you are going to use. I think every new groundbreaking camera system requires you to learn a new work flow it's part of the process. And if you can't figure it out there are plenty of post facilities who know how to handle it just fine. Now that is more of an option for productions with money, but if you are just tinkering then you should have the time to learn.

bottom line is we are talking raw video here, and for under 10k with high frame rates, time lapse recording, pre record, and many more. Some people will jump through whatever hoops in post they have to to achieve this level of quality and control (though you don't really have to as long as you know your work flow).

young shooters will always have some camera that to them is the holy grail that will fix all there shooting woes unfortunately it's never the case. For me back in the day it was the xl1 I'm young I know but at the time when I started out to me that camera would solve all my problems and if I could get it there would be no limit to what I could make. A year later I got a hd-100u, I didn't make my first movie I didn't skyrocket in ability, I just slowly began to learn the camera and the craft, slowly. Around that time I herd of the red one while looking up the highest definition available camera's at the time. I fell in love but it was still in development and way out of my price range. So I tucked it away in my head until I had the money to afford one and kept on working. now scarlet is light years above the rest in terms of proposed stats so I can understand how angry some are getting over this just itching to get it and shoot their Moby dick of films.

Thing is someone could make beautiful movies on a shoe string budget with a small crew and a scarlet. While others might use it in indi's with a larger crew and proper budget and the scarlet should still hold up like 16mm (hopefully we'll see). Or I believe you could have some kid by himself out there living and breathing art without knowing it (not me) could make an amazing one man show of a movie with these camera's and take us into a new form of movie making more akin to painting or writing.

mah I guess we will see but as I have stated before I doubt they will crumble under the pressure. the mx'ed red one's should be tested by now (should) so the production on p4 should be fine. On the release of the new cameras I'm sure Jim is not going to let them out of the oven until they are just right.

to a future filled with much better camera's and less restrained artists.
 
I'm sorry but I'm calling you out..


"Nobody knows what do to with RED RAW files".

So what about the hundreds of us who work with them on a daily basis, ignorance of workflow is not an excuse anymore, its a sign of lazy editors and lazy post production design teams.

They can barley afford to rent the camera for their shoot, by no means do they know an editor with a RED Rocket so they're stuck and end up editing with proxy files.

Then don't shoot RED, shoot something you can afford, or stay out of the business entirely, filmmaking is not a cheap hobby, its a bloody expensive profession.

But then again RED started off as a Big Kid camera company and evolving to an all Pro status after this Disney Feature.

So the other major motion pictures that were shot on RED are null and void??

If you can't get 5k together to fund the start of your career then shoot on something that suits you more until you can. If you think that 50,000 is a large budget for a student full length feature then you have a lot of learning to do. Your producer should be able to scrape that together if he's competent, that will get you a full rental kit, good talent and a competent low budget post house. I guarantee it, I've worked on shows like that.

Quality filmmaking is suffering recently in my opinion and I'm sick of people complaining that they cant shoot a full feature on a 5d2 with VFX and a score for less than a weeks grocery shopping. If your a student go shoot 16mm, go shoot, a 5d2, go shoot with a PixelVision, but please don't expect that your budgets should stay static. If you want to shoot on a RED then your budget is going to go up, a fraction, and your still going to be able to make pictures for a massive discount on what you could a few years ago.

I think a lot of people forget or don't realize that before RED came along you rented your kit for 5,000 dollars a week. Now you can buy a 2nd hand full shooting kit with lenses for 18000 dollars. 18k is nothing, nothing compared to what it used to be. If your serious about being a professional, get a loan for 18k and start shooting, its not that hard. Pity the people who invested 500,000 at a base minimum a few years ago to start. You can now do it for 20,000. That is incredible and people should still be proud of RED for doing that.

I apologize for the rant, but its a topic close to my heart. I don't like lazy people calling themselves professionals, or hobbyists doing the same. It lessens the profession and cheapens us all.
 
I heard things like "the Arri Alexa is a RED ONE that works" and "Nobody knows what do to with RED RAW files"

By the way, both Adobe CS5 and Avid Media Composer support native R3D files. Adobe has leveraged CUDA engines on nvidia cards to speed processing while avid has found a way to max out dual quad CPUs in processing footage. If you are a kid renting a camera to make your film then the key to post is patience.

...But then again RED started off as a Big Kid camera company and evolving to an all Pro status after this Disney Feature.

WTF??? OK, look, you're totally right. The Red One is a kid's toy fit to shoot music videos, how to webinars, and little else. the guys doing the next Pirates movie are really risking the crown jewels by depending on such an unprofessional piece of kit as the red One. They must be nuts.

That being said why don't you pop over to the -DSLR in Motion- forum on DVXUser (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=174). Looking at your resume it would seem a better fit for you at the current point in your career.

Bob
 
Seriously, for a huge budget like Pirates 4, there is no way in hell they would use a camera that was "iffy". If anything it will be the swan song for the Red One.

I certainly HOPE this isn't Red's swan song!
 
By the way, both Adobe CS5 and Avid Media Composer support native R3D files. Adobe has leveraged CUDA engines on nvidia cards to speed processing while avid has found a way to max out dual quad CPUs in processing footage. If you are a kid renting a camera to make your film then the key to post is patience.



WTF??? OK, look, you're totally right. The Red One is a kid's toy fit to shoot music videos, how to webinars, and little else. the guys doing the next Pirates movie are really risking the crown jewels by depending on such an unprofessional piece of kit as the red One. They must be nuts.

That being said why don't you pop over to the -DSLR in Motion- forum on DVXUser (http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/forumdisplay.php?f=174). Looking at your resume it would seem a better fit for you at the current point in your career.

Bob

You don't support my opinion nor should I support yours so why do you care about what "punks" like me have to say?

CS5 just became available so this is only valid to a certain degree. People in LA told me such quotes and it's an issue even if it doesn't apply to you.

Okay you got me I don't come from a background to afford a RED thus giving me the prior knowledge to make a better post. But common dude don't act like your website or your Resume is in it's pristine condition to dog on my credentials. Remember I'm 22 and you're how old, double my age? So don't hate.

I'm here to learn and share ideas. Excuse me for being so naive apparently.
 
Remember I'm 22 and you're how old, double my age? So don't hate.

I'm here to learn and share ideas. Excuse me for being so naive apparently.

Oh don't pull the innocence card, I'm less than 5 years older than you, so age is no excuse for apparent ignorance.
And no so far you've been here to say/show how much you don't seem to want to learn how the industry functions and how it should work the way you want it to work.
 
Oh don't pull the innocence card, I'm less than 5 years older than you, so age is no excuse for apparent ignorance.
And no so far you've been here to say/show how much you don't seem to want to learn how the industry functions and how it should work the way you want it to work.

If you have the time, enlighten me my brother.

What don't I want to learn on how the industry functions? (there's a lot of "how" and "to" in your sentence, not really sure the point you're trying to make. Anyway I can get some examples concerning your comment?)

I'm totally fine with my current workflow so it doesn't bug one bit, at one point it will be out dated and I will have to move on to the next...

But the more I know the better, diverse knowledge is power.
 
You don't support my opinion nor should I support yours so why do you care about what "punks" like me have to say?

CS5 just became available so this is only valid to a certain degree. People in LA told me such quotes and it's an issue even if it doesn't apply to you.

Okay you got me I don't come from a background to afford a RED thus giving me the prior knowledge to make a better post.

Because guys like you actually cost the rest of us money. By perpetuating the myth that the Red workflow is immature and/or onerous you cause some producers to go with other, lesser technology, costing us work. You are parroting someone who is probably parroting someone else who probably is remembering an article written in a magazine three years ago.

One tip: If you don't have the background then don't start by throwing out an ignorant opinion. Instead start by asking questions.

Another tip: Reach out to the Red owners in your area and ask them to show off their camera, or offer to work for them for the experience. you don't have to own the camera to get experience with it.

Bob
 
it's a hard argument to debate without stepping on some toes. This mainly comes down to the ever changing workflows that we are having to deal with. The FILM guys are effected by RED guys and the RED guys are effected by the DSLR guys. And well 3D, not really sure whats up with that.

Some film schools can't afford a R1 and most have stop teaching film so they're having to shoot DSLR or on EX1 w/ Lotus adapters and we all know how much fun that is. So how are younger generations able to learn the proper way of production unless they come from stacks of cash (which in this recession it's harder to come by)

POC4 could be a breaking point to make the push for RAW video as the new standard workflow for any type of project much like film in the past. In such fast changing times I hope this is the case.
:closed2ur0:
 
Some film schools can't afford a R1 and most have stop teaching film so they're having to shoot DSLR or on EX1 w/ Lotus adapters and we all know how much fun that is. So how are younger generations able to learn the proper way of production unless they come from stacks of cash (which in this recession it's harder to come by)

Well I reiterate, 18000 is not stacks of cash for anyone attempting to portray themselves as a professional owner operator. 300 a day is not stacks of cash for anyone looking to shoot a short.
I dont know of any recognized film school or course that wouldn't be able to afford a Red One.
 
How to learn "proper production" techniques

How to learn "proper production" techniques

I would get to know your local RED users. There are several in and around Austin.

Ask specific questions, be humble and put prejudice, hearsay and rumors aside.

The simple fact is RED has dramatically expanded the market, and also lowered the cost for high quality production.

In such an environment there will be a lot of FUD and also a lot of opportunity. Ultimately it's up to you what you take away from this.
 
RTF UT kids from what I've been told have to rent a RED and the school cannot provide them with one. Which just so happens to be one of the top ten film schools in the nation last I checked.

I'd like to know who will rent their RED for $300 a day thats a great deal.

Thanks Stuart for the valid advice.
 
RTF UT kids from what I've been told have to rent a RED and the school cannot provide them with one. Which just so happens to be one of the top ten film schools in the nation last I checked.

I'd like to know who will rent their RED for $300 a day thats a great deal.

Thanks Stuart for the valid advice.

There's a difference between a film school not being able to afford a red and a film school choosing not to buy a red.

http://rtf.utexas.edu/equipment/video/index.html
http://rtf.utexas.edu/equipment/film/index.html

Extensive Film and video selection to choose from, price is not a problem for them.
 
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