Pimp up your RED with Uncle Scrooge

[Matt Gottshalk]

Yeah. It's unreasonable.

You get what you pay for with tripods. No shortcuts.

jb

QFT unfortunately.

 

[John Brawley]

QFT unfortunately.

What amazes me is that people are *demanding* that someone manufacture a cheap tripod that still performs like a 10K unit.

The camera is the cheapest part of this whole equation. Isn't that revolutionary enough ?

jb

 

[Brandon Fraley]

What amazes me is that people are *demanding* that someone manufacture a cheap tripod that still performs like a 10K unit.

You mean like a $17k camera that performs like a $100k camera? or maybe a $700 matte box that performs like a $5k matte box?

It's only a matter of time, I'd rather it be sooner than later.

 

[John Brawley]

You mean like a $17k camera that performs like a $100k camera? or maybe a $700 matte box that performs like a $5k matte box?

It's only a matter of time, I'd rather it be sooner than later.

It's different with a camera because there are improvements to electronics, components, DSP, software etc.

A tripod is a pretty basic bit of engineering in comparison. There aren't going to be the huge leaps in manufacturing that can take place with electronics. Why would you expect the same rate of cost downscaling ?

jb

 

[Redrhoads]

Jing,
I know spending thousands on a tripod sounds painful and it is, but there is a difference. Now some people won't be loading their REDs up as much as others, so if you have a lightweight rig, then you may find some of the more affordable tripods are okay. I'd look for a good, used Sachtler, Ronford, or even one of the old O'connors. If it's in good shape it will make a difference in your pans. I've used my share of bad tripods over the years and even though they held the weight I couldn't get smooth pan and tilts. Sometimes it was the head just wasn't fluid enough, or the sticks were too light and they would shake when the wind blew. These types of things can ruin otherwise good shots. So find your threshold monetarily and determine what you are willing to accept in terms of quality. You'll find something decent for $2-3K if you're looking to do lightweight.

+2

I hate throwing brands around, but I got spoiled with Sachtler/O'Connor stuff. I'm not above using comparable cheaper products though. I just hope no one out there is using a Manfrotto/bogen 516 or 526 under their REDs, a big no-no in my opinion.

 

[Colin C]

Foresight

Foresight

The DAIWA 15 package support an advertised 33lb which is on the light side of RED configurations by the sound of it. I'm not saying that its not a bad product by any means. But rather whether with buying support, people have really thought what they want to do long term with their RED.

If you're absolutely comitted to buying instead of renting, but don't want to spend too much maybe a second-hand purchase of something that can support more is wiser long term as opposed to buying something that has a weight limit thats going to cap what you configure your camera with.

As John says, I wouldn't be looking to a sudden innovative inspired drop in Tripod prices.

 

[laguun]

There are good brands with good products for tripods and heads in the €€€ range.

As kick-ass price/performance head, i would probably recommend manfrotto, the 526.

Its priced ~800-900 eur, 1300-1400 USD.
Manfrotto understands quite a bit about support systems....

http://www.manfrotto.com/Jahia/site/manfrotto/cache/offonce/pid/3716?livid=80&lsf=80&child=2
http://www.gomediamonkey.com/proddetail.php?prod=BOG526

"Feature-packed fluid head for heavy-duty, professional video
Packed with features and capable of supporting over 35 lbs., the 526 Pro Fluid Video Head, perfect for heavy-duty, high end ENG and EFP applications.

The 526 uses Manfrotto’s most precise fluid drag system, composed of three step settings for low to high drag, plus a no-drag setting for snap-pans and tilts.

Large rubber, padded knobs and attention to the overall design – with all controls on the left side of the head – make this workhorse head a breeze to use.

Designed to support professional video cameras, the 526 Pro Fluid Video Head contains an adjustable spring for providing counterbalance for a wide-range of camera weights, and a built-in 100mm half-ball for adaptability. The 526 also features a removable pan arm rosette, allowing for easy replacement.

The 526 comes with one pan arm and the long 357PLV plate.

Specifications:
weight: 7.9 lbs
load capacity: 35.3 lbs
panoramic rotation: 360 °
minimum working temperature: -20 °C
maximum working temperature: 60 °C
working height: 5.9 in
color: black
material: aluminum
independent pan lock: yes
tilt drag: 0 plus 3 step
front tilt: -70° / +75°
quick release: yes
secondary safety system: yes
bubble spirit level (no): 1
pan bars included (no.): 1
pan bar positions: 2
plate type: 357PLV
attachment (bottom): 3/8'' screw
attachment: 1/4" and 3/8" screws
pan drag: 0 plus 3 step
independent tilt lock: yes
variable balance control: yes
counterbalance: yes
additional pan handle: 519LV
sliding travel of plate: 3 in
balance control: one fix spring adjustable from 8 to 15kg
head bowl: 100mm"

 

[laguun]

+2

I hate throwing brands around, but I got spoiled with Sachtler/O'Connor stuff. I'm not above using comparable cheaper products though. I just hope no one out there is using a Manfrotto/bogen 516 or 526 under their REDs, a big no-no in my opinion.

we actually use both - sachtler and manfrotto.

sachtler certainly is more solid and is -necessary- for heavier setups, the 526 is not strong enough to support a fully loaded rig consisting of red, evf, lcd, angenieux zoom, heavy crosziel mattebox etc etc.

But what problems would you see with a 526 with a low- or midweight (20-30 lbs) setup on a manfrotto 526?

 

[laguun]

It's different with a camera because there are improvements to electronics, components, DSP, software etc.

A tripod is a pretty basic bit of engineering in comparison. There aren't going to be the huge leaps in manufacturing that can take place with electronics. Why would you expect the same rate of cost downscaling ?

jb

I agree that we wont see the same rate of cost downscaling.
However, economy of scale and ultra high profits of the european and american top-brands should allow a better offer.

I saw some chinese studio-tripods last year, all in the upper $$$, and man, they were supporting >80lbs rigs. My concern with them was support, as they dont have distributors in the EU.

 

[paul engstrom]

i picked up an Oconnor 50d (serviced and with warranty) from visual products and new miller sticks from custom supply (see the old Oconnor group buy pages) for under 2k. its a good setup. it can actually handle quite a bit of weight. its smooth. its the real deal. plus, you can probably sell for a good price if you choose to upgrade or change your approach later.

my 2c

 

[Shane V8F]

Speaking of selling an Oconnor 50 head and tripod. I just ordered a Cartoni C40 with Ronford legs, and will probably be selling my Ocnnor 50 when I get the new package set up.
You are right the 50 is a really smooth head. I have been using them since the 80's and they are really solid. I hope I love the C40, I know it is a much heaver setup and not good for run and gun shooting. If it doesn't blow me away, I will probably keep both.
PM me if you want to be informed on the Oconnor 50.

 

[Andrew Madu]

$1 Image Stabilizer For Any Camera - Lose The Tripod

$1 Image Stabilizer For Any Camera - Lose The Tripod

For those with an aversion to extortionate tripod costs! :

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1041948/1_image_stabilizer_for_any_camera_lose_the_tripod/

 

[Jason Ing]

It's different with a camera because there are improvements to electronics, components, DSP, software etc.

jb

i don't know if the low price can be attributed to only this.

i think it's also about less corporate greed and more business savvy. Could Jim charge more for Red and it still not be overpriced? Yes.

Part of the Red Revolution to me is creating high-quality product and then choosing to NOT charge an astronomical price for it because there are some customers with a lot of money (which also creates that exclusive "club" environment).

Look at viewfactor. I spoke to the viewfactor guy at the LA reduser meeting... sorry, I'm really bad at names... anyway... he said he could've gone down a path of markups that would eventually make his ff cost 2k plus or take the path that he's doing now that it now costs under 1k. And I have to say, I tried it out and it's really sweet. Other "professional" brand ff units can cost upwards to 6k+, I think. Huge difference. Guess what ff I will be getting?

Point is... tripods costs this high because they can charge it and people will pay it. Not necessarily because of production costs or that's how much the technology is truly worth. Prices can drop not just because it's cheaper to make, technology changes, etc., but also because there's less gouging per individual.

So like Red & Viewfactor, someone in the tripod industry will catch on to the Red revolution and do the same. Then they will have a swarm of customers.

I hope it comes soon.

just my 2 cents.

 

[Thomas Koch]

I've had Amvona stuff a lot (Tripod Legs for $50) Backdrop stands, etc. ALL o their stuff CRAP. My tripod legs broke. There was not real spreader, just some metal bars that didn't lock. I put a Vinten head on it though, so the heads I hav are good, although both of them are too small for the RED, which means, my new Legs (75mm bowl) won't last past June.

I'll sell them with my HVX though when my number comes up.

 

[Eddie]

The peculiar thing about a rental-based economy, is that the manufacturer as well as the rental house have an interest in astronomical pricing.
6k for a ff... i´ll take a car instead!

I have updated the first post with some of the tripod and lens suggestions.

 

[laguun]

The peculiar thing about a rental-based economy, is that the manufacturer as well as the rental house have an interest in astronomical pricing.
6k for a ff... i´ll take a car instead!

I have updated the first post with some of the tripod and lens suggestions.

lots of truth in you statement, but not true for -all- rental houses.
we always try to offer a -money doesnt matter- and a -pragmatic- package for our clients.

and the pragmatic systems have become pretty good meanwhile.

 

[Eddie]

Thats a very good bussiness approach laguun... and your enthusiasm on this forum back-up the words... "Mr. Gorbatchov... tear down this wall!"

By the way, I have noticed that some rental houses and postproduction offices are offering a fast conversion from redcode to any format for a small fee. Are you considering a similarservice?

On a sidenote, I have placed the HP blackbird 002 as the Uncle Scrooge PC, but it is based on reviews, not thourough research. I know that you have been diving into the PC side of things, and wondered if you would care to chime in on the choices regarding powerful "Bang-for-Buck" PCs

Viele Grüsse
Eddie

 

[Michael Stanmore]

I like the look of the 526...

I have a little more cash to spend than that... So I guess the sweet spot for me is about the $2500US mark...$3000 at the most (if I eat rice for a few weeks)

And it's gotta be able to handle a full red rig... I don't have any silly Angenieux lenses with a front the size of a dinner plate... But I will have an LCD... mostly just shooting on compact flash, but we'll have a drive and will want to use it sometimes... we'll most likely have a viewfactor studios rig of their matte box and a 3 motor kit once the pro follow focus is ready... I'll have to bring my scales with me to NAB and figure out what I'm dealing with.

So i'll probably have to find a second hand job that can handle the workload.

 

[laguun]

Thats a very good bussiness approach laguun... and your enthusiasm on this forum back-up the words... "Mr. Gorbatchov... tear down this wall!"

Thank you very much!

By the way, I have noticed that some rental houses and postproduction offices are offering a fast conversion from redcode to any format for a small fee. Are you considering a similarservice?

Yes, we do offer such services.
Among other formats, we offer redcode to:
HDCAM (really inexpensive)
HDCAM SR
BLURAY
D-BETA and SP
DV/DVCAM/DVCPRO
and also many fileformats, including dpx, most QT and AVI formats and Avid DNAxHD. We will certainly offer cineform as well, but we are still holding our breath until their red product is out of beta.

We offer to throw up to 64 fast CPUs and several high-speed raids at the job.

On a sidenote, I have placed the HP blackbird 002 as the Uncle Scrooge PC, but it is based on reviews, not thourough research. I know that you have been diving into the PC side of things, and wondered if you would care to chime in on the choices regarding powerful "Bang-for-Buck" PCs

For red, first of all, i would recommend a PC which runs Windows and OSX, in order to be compatible. The developer version of OSX isnt to expensive.

For best bang-for-buck:
Intel Q6600 Quadcore ~180€ (Q9300 once available)
4 GB RAM DDR2-667 ~60€
I965 basing Board ~60-70€ (integrated G-Ethernet, 2 G-Ethernet make sense, on board graphic for pure number crunching also)
case with >400W Power ~40-60€
500 GB Disk ~70€
these components are the sweet spot of the market today.

If you intend to use Redcine, a
GF 8800GT card with 512MB at 150-200€ makes sense.

Viele Grüsse
Eddie

Und liebe grüße aus berlin zurück!

 

[laguun]

I don't have any silly Angenieux lenses with a front the size of a dinner plate...

how dare you
(whispers to the rack behind him: "You didnt hear that, ladies...")