Peter Jackson clips and grabs...

[Karl H]

Given - my calling it posterization was to identify what I was referring to per a question earlier in the thread.

with respect Brook, I think what he's trying to say is the artifacts we are seeing in the image are not from jpeg compression.

We're not saying they are from Mysterium or from Redcode, but the point is a 6.5MB jpeg would not produce artifacts of any kind at 100%, it should be clean.

do tests on any high res images you have, you dont get this result.

Not trying to stir anything up, just being practical, and the blame is being put squarely on jpg compression which I think is unfair....

 

[Alexander Nikishin]

The stills look BEAUTIFUL considering the amount of compression.

Sure they don't do the 4k presentation any justice, but they look great none the less.

Some tiffs would be prefered though.

 

[PaulClements]

Looking good... Looking forward to the vids and hopefully at least one of the images dl'd without any artifacts for comparisons.

 

[Alex Boothby]

I wonder if the pablo grade introduced some artifacts? or whether some noise reduction has maybe been applied in the grading process

You can achieve a very similar effect using the DEGRAIN tool in Flame, which keeps the detail in high contrast area but blurs out the low contrast areas. It is possible that Pablo has a similar toolset. From experience I know that most colorists tend to keep noise reduction on (and cranked!) by default - I think it has something to do with grading film all the time. :biggrin:

 

[Albert Cheng]

I agree, I'm seeing some wierdness in some of those images that to my eye, look as if they've been run through a subtle median filter or something and the loss of detail is unpleasant. Regardless of whether it's from the alpha cam, jpeg compression or whatever, I would heartily recommend pulling those images until you guys can figure out what they are. Any professional that comes and looks at them at full size is going to scrutinize and get a very wrong impression. I can already see forum trouble brewing.

I'm being protective as well.

 

[Deanan]

edit: ...or maybe it's just that the foreground is in focus and the background is out of focus.

The background should be out of focus. It looks similar to bokeh
I've seen on some lenses. Sometime bokeh can appear patchy
depending on the lens design and the distance between
in focus and out of focus.

I've seen this on a few lenses before with film but it's
less obvious because it's hidden behind grain.

Deanan (has obsessive compulsive bokeh disorder)

 

[Martin Jäger]

yeah...

yeah...

is there any ungraded - unprocessed footage?
it looks like mentioned allready; heavy noisereduction / sharpening
i'm quite sure this came along with the grading process - i don't
want to beliefe it's a matter of redcode or mysterium - and IF it is;
graeme, can we have a bypass function?

and yes, i agree with opcode - take them away until there is clarification...

martin

 

[P Andersson]

maybe it is possible to take a look at unprocessed (raw) version of the plane image say as a tiff (if too big a part of the smooth wing, wires and forest would do good),

my guess to is that something in post was intentional, and it doesn't show up when viewed at 24fps, a median, or noise reduction tool of some sort.

 

[Deanan]

The jpeg compression and going down to 8bit seems to be adding
it's own funk to the mix that I haven't seen before on these images.

Deanan

 

[Deanan]

FYI, these images went through Pablo so there was first
a 16bit to 10bit conversion, grading, and then to 8bit jpeg.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

I didn't see anything like this when I was de-mosaicing the RAW images. That said, you can make a de-mosaic algorithm look like pretty much anything you want and give a range of subtle textures. There's no sharpening in the de-mosaic so that must have come in at the grade.

The images were graded and produced to be projected, and only graded on a 2k projector.

In the lab we looked at the raw footage, de-mosaiced, and then projected at 4k and didn't see any real funkyness.

Graeme

 

[Deanan]

another note, some of these images my also have a digital push in but without
looking at all the raw footage, we won't know which ones they are.

 

[Martin Jäger]

moving..

moving..

well i do beliefe that even like this the images look great when they're moving.
and i have to say that i saw this kind of artefacts many times before with heavy treated 35mm scanns.

and graeme - that's actually a complement: i'm sure with one of your own scaling algorhythms you'd
be able to make a 2k image look like those...

pleaze; only one 16bit png woud do - directly from redcode...

 

[P Andersson]

That said, you can make a de-mosaic algorithm look like pretty much anything you want and give a range of subtle textures. There's no sharpening in the de-mosaic so that must have come in at the grade.

Will REDCINE have options of doing these in gradually different ways in the same way that we can convert our raw still images from dslrs.

It doesn't look like sharpening to me, more like the opposite of sharpening - an intentional smoothing out of close pixel details.

We know you wanted this camera to look creamy, perhaps it is time to use half and half.

 

[Poi Boy]

Whatever the funk is, these images are really stunning to see in PS at 100%. Can't wait to make my own !
Aloha
-A

 

[Obin Olson]

Great!

 

[Alex Boothby]

I think we can all agree on that.

 

[Graeme Nattress]

Remember REDCODE had it's first time turn on with these cameras, and it completely un-tweaked, and that can make the world of difference. As I pointed out to people at NAB who saw the movie - "That's the worst redcode will ever look", and quite frankly projected at 4k and running at 24p, it looked amazing.

Graeme

 

[Floris Liesker]

Could anyone within the read team please compare the jpg to the original file and find out where and why the pics went berzerk. It looks like photoshops 'smart blur' was put over it. It looks very much like it.

This type of artifacts wasn't in the milk girls, so it cannot be the sensor or the redcode, right?

 

[P Andersson]

This thing seems to me to be obviously a tweak thing, not dependent on the sensor or camera, it is how it is dealt with in post as the milkgirls looked completely different.