jake blackstone
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Not to start a war here, but I was talking about professional level color grading software:smile5:
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PC and Mac in tandem...
- Thread starter Jon B.
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Not to start a war here, but I was talking about professional level color grading software:smile5:
JP Castel
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Here is my perspective.
As a "PC Guy" for many years i still wish for the power when i infrequently play games on the mac. But lets talk Video processing.
The PC will always be faster, cheaper, and backyard build-able, but it doesn't have that signature that apple fuses into there metal cases stating "I work for sure." but if you are willing to spend time tweaking and pissing away time then Hackintosh might be the way for you.
Our systems.
We own many Apple Mac Pros our fastest sporting the 8 core 2.66 with the ATI Card.
We also sport my personal favorite (love/hate relationship) the hackintosh with the following specs.
E8400 Dual Core 3.0GHz Intel Overclocked to 4.6GHZ on Air! Stable to boot.
Dual Sli compatible GTX 260s full GL/Cl support.
OSX 10.6.2 FCP 3
4 GB RAM DDR2
You see the problem with Mac OS is that it is not yet utilizing the full capabilities of the insane processors that they put into them. Only Compressor and Motion have multiprocessor cability in the FCP Studio Suite and that is if you can get the Q master to recognizes its own processors as a virtual cluster. Forget GPU, virtually not supported, because it is so new to the operating system. The OS doesn't boot normally into 64bit either on macs because it is again to new to be trusted. But given time all of these things will change, but PC had all of the features back in the "vista sucks" days. I am not trying to belittle apple here it is really just astounding how much these things are marketing ploys than actual benchmark improvements. The funny part too is that the technology is heading toward multiple processors with small core speeds which means when you render out of color you are going even slower, due to its non multiprocessor support. But why do we go mac because we love FCP and most of the video applications go Mac. It is becoming a standard one might say, which might take a turn for the worst if apple keeps removing firewires from there computers....
Anyways, Really depends on your decided workflow, both pc and mac will give you great looking films, to DPX and beyond, but you have to consider what you are willing to work with. For instance on a mac one most edit with a duplicated offline/online (L&T Wrapped .mov) workflow which require goobers of space. Where in premier one can edit straight with the .r3ds. But then you also have to consider the proxies as well, which also work quite decently without duplication requirements, but that then requires third party software to quickly reingest the footage, which could cost more money.
Also really depends upon who you work with. If you work with effects lab you might want to adapt a PC workflow cause lord know those boys with be rendering farming ae to support your red 4k footage.
Here is the Hate side of the hackintosh:
You may have successfully installed 10.5.2 Kalyaway, but what you will soon realize is that if you wont be able to update without bricking the machine and loosing all data unless you connect the drive to another OSX machine via and exteranl enclosure, or as a slave. Then you will start working more in the industry and find that everyone is working with fcp 10.6.6 where you are stuck at 10.6.3. When you try and update it says that a system update is required to get to this version of fcp. Thus you can't work with others files, doesn't work. Also the Kalyaway system use a bootloader that really messes with the OS rendering updating very hard. Also it has a slew of drivers on it to make it successful with most computers so you could possibly start seeing kernal panics galore later down the road.
The hackintosh comp is our 7th build in snow leopard alone. There is a lot of support online, but if you want a stable system, which is necessary for video production you need to learn the codes. Most specifically the adaptation of the DSDT.aml. I had to write the drivers myself for the sli to work correctly, but it is something that i love to work with and have fun doing along with shooting, but it is most certainly not for the faint of heart.
Since i proudly showcase my hackintosh to my colleges i often get this question a lot, and i most cases i would urge the user to purchase a mac if that is indeed the workflow they want to work with.
How we file transfer.
We do it a couple of ways. Our network servers have RAID 5 FAT 32 Drives specifically for transport. And since the .r3ds seperate in the 2/4GB range we can use Fat 32 as a transfer because it is read/writable with both os. We also utilize mac drive and nstg plugins to be able to write to ntsf drives on the mac side. Also since OSX can natively read only NTSF or pc drives you can copy all you want off them, but since RED Rocket™ Cine is only Mac compatibly it might be hard getting your files over to the pc side.
Render comparisons.
Right now since the Hackintosh has faster non-multiprocessor capability it destroys the 2.66 speed of the Mac pro in application such as color and FCP. Thus it sits with a kona card sdi out to a Ecinema and is our grading machine. But in compressor we have successfully setup a virtual cluster that utilizes all 16 threads of the mac pro and it screams!!! through red renders. I beileve it was about 30mins for a h.264 Render of a 42min documentary online wrapped .mov time line.
Haven't really found any GPU comparisons on the mac side, simply nothing to work it hard, not even application monitors for it yet. But with updates this amazing power will slowly be unlocked.
If you are going to use the PC side for a workflow you will see a dramatic decrease in render time because you are now utilizing all processors both GPUs, in my case, in almost all application.
So it is really up to you. What i have down with my personal mac pro is installed windows 7 via bootcamp and unlocked the full power of that beast when we need AE renders.
Pricing. This is very much subject to change, but a friend of mine who use to be in the computer building business just recently build himself a dual processor i7 setup specifically for maya and 3d max renders. He spent i believe about 3-4K on it and he spec out a similair apple product and it was in the 5-6K range.
Just some food for thought.
Hope this helps.
If you have any question you know where to find me.
As a "PC Guy" for many years i still wish for the power when i infrequently play games on the mac. But lets talk Video processing.
The PC will always be faster, cheaper, and backyard build-able, but it doesn't have that signature that apple fuses into there metal cases stating "I work for sure." but if you are willing to spend time tweaking and pissing away time then Hackintosh might be the way for you.
Our systems.
We own many Apple Mac Pros our fastest sporting the 8 core 2.66 with the ATI Card.
We also sport my personal favorite (love/hate relationship) the hackintosh with the following specs.
E8400 Dual Core 3.0GHz Intel Overclocked to 4.6GHZ on Air! Stable to boot.
Dual Sli compatible GTX 260s full GL/Cl support.
OSX 10.6.2 FCP 3
4 GB RAM DDR2
You see the problem with Mac OS is that it is not yet utilizing the full capabilities of the insane processors that they put into them. Only Compressor and Motion have multiprocessor cability in the FCP Studio Suite and that is if you can get the Q master to recognizes its own processors as a virtual cluster. Forget GPU, virtually not supported, because it is so new to the operating system. The OS doesn't boot normally into 64bit either on macs because it is again to new to be trusted. But given time all of these things will change, but PC had all of the features back in the "vista sucks" days. I am not trying to belittle apple here it is really just astounding how much these things are marketing ploys than actual benchmark improvements. The funny part too is that the technology is heading toward multiple processors with small core speeds which means when you render out of color you are going even slower, due to its non multiprocessor support. But why do we go mac because we love FCP and most of the video applications go Mac. It is becoming a standard one might say, which might take a turn for the worst if apple keeps removing firewires from there computers....
Anyways, Really depends on your decided workflow, both pc and mac will give you great looking films, to DPX and beyond, but you have to consider what you are willing to work with. For instance on a mac one most edit with a duplicated offline/online (L&T Wrapped .mov) workflow which require goobers of space. Where in premier one can edit straight with the .r3ds. But then you also have to consider the proxies as well, which also work quite decently without duplication requirements, but that then requires third party software to quickly reingest the footage, which could cost more money.
Also really depends upon who you work with. If you work with effects lab you might want to adapt a PC workflow cause lord know those boys with be rendering farming ae to support your red 4k footage.
Here is the Hate side of the hackintosh:
You may have successfully installed 10.5.2 Kalyaway, but what you will soon realize is that if you wont be able to update without bricking the machine and loosing all data unless you connect the drive to another OSX machine via and exteranl enclosure, or as a slave. Then you will start working more in the industry and find that everyone is working with fcp 10.6.6 where you are stuck at 10.6.3. When you try and update it says that a system update is required to get to this version of fcp. Thus you can't work with others files, doesn't work. Also the Kalyaway system use a bootloader that really messes with the OS rendering updating very hard. Also it has a slew of drivers on it to make it successful with most computers so you could possibly start seeing kernal panics galore later down the road.
The hackintosh comp is our 7th build in snow leopard alone. There is a lot of support online, but if you want a stable system, which is necessary for video production you need to learn the codes. Most specifically the adaptation of the DSDT.aml. I had to write the drivers myself for the sli to work correctly, but it is something that i love to work with and have fun doing along with shooting, but it is most certainly not for the faint of heart.
Since i proudly showcase my hackintosh to my colleges i often get this question a lot, and i most cases i would urge the user to purchase a mac if that is indeed the workflow they want to work with.
How we file transfer.
We do it a couple of ways. Our network servers have RAID 5 FAT 32 Drives specifically for transport. And since the .r3ds seperate in the 2/4GB range we can use Fat 32 as a transfer because it is read/writable with both os. We also utilize mac drive and nstg plugins to be able to write to ntsf drives on the mac side. Also since OSX can natively read only NTSF or pc drives you can copy all you want off them, but since RED Rocket™ Cine is only Mac compatibly it might be hard getting your files over to the pc side.
Render comparisons.
Right now since the Hackintosh has faster non-multiprocessor capability it destroys the 2.66 speed of the Mac pro in application such as color and FCP. Thus it sits with a kona card sdi out to a Ecinema and is our grading machine. But in compressor we have successfully setup a virtual cluster that utilizes all 16 threads of the mac pro and it screams!!! through red renders. I beileve it was about 30mins for a h.264 Render of a 42min documentary online wrapped .mov time line.
Haven't really found any GPU comparisons on the mac side, simply nothing to work it hard, not even application monitors for it yet. But with updates this amazing power will slowly be unlocked.
If you are going to use the PC side for a workflow you will see a dramatic decrease in render time because you are now utilizing all processors both GPUs, in my case, in almost all application.
So it is really up to you. What i have down with my personal mac pro is installed windows 7 via bootcamp and unlocked the full power of that beast when we need AE renders.
Pricing. This is very much subject to change, but a friend of mine who use to be in the computer building business just recently build himself a dual processor i7 setup specifically for maya and 3d max renders. He spent i believe about 3-4K on it and he spec out a similair apple product and it was in the 5-6K range.
Just some food for thought.
Hope this helps.
If you have any question you know where to find me.
- Thread starter
- #23
Thank you for that...:thumbup:
Mohammed El Sharqawy
Well-known member
well said..